Biscuit machines

[iantheframer]

I often use biscuits when joining large mouldings. I cut the groove with a router and slotting bit. I am thinking of a proper biscuit jointer, but they are expensive.
Any experiences of these machines and possible recommendations most welcome

[Dermot]

There has been some talk on the Grumble about biscuits failing (breaking) and the frame coming apart….

It might be worth doing a search at the G on the subject….

In general from recollection on discussions over the years on the G biscuits have not been rated very high for picture framing applications…

That said my own feeling is that they could have their usages for some frame applications….and in time I could see myself adding them to my arsenal of frame joining methods…

[prospero]

I have a Skil biscuit cutter (model 1810) that I have used for over 10 years and it's still working fine. It probably doesn't get the use thst someone like a kitchen fitter would give it, but I must have used 1000's of biscuits over that period, so it's earned it's keep. At the time most ones I looked at were in the £300+ region, but I think I paid about 125. They seem to be even cheaper now>>>

http://www.elliotts4tools.co.uk/skil/sk ... p-138.html

That one seems very similar to mine.

[gesso]

This is a great way to join frames (natural wood)
looks the DB's too when the frame is up on the wall. Sod underpinning!



http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/ ... x?id=29994

[danchip1]

this is an area in tools where u definately get what u pay for and IMO u need to spend a good bit of wad on something decent. £200 - £300 should do the trick, look out for deals in builders merchants and places like Screwfix or Axminster Power Tools.

I,ve not really used them much in my previous life, but when buying power tool would always go for industrial grade Dewalt, Makita, Hilti etc

The biggest issue that arises in regard to price is accuracy. essentially u are buying a motor with a small saw blade that spins. The most important stuff is the plunge facility and fence set up etc, these things can tend to suffer on cheaper machines and therefore cause BIG problems on the finished product, as well as PITA to use. I've bought cheap power tools in the past and ended up binning them cause they will never deliver

I guess u could hire one from a hire centre for a weekend, Speedy Hire do good prices, and have a play??

[iantheframer]

I guess u could hire one from a hire centre for a weekend, Speedy Hire do good prices, and have a play??

sounds like a good idea thank you

Agree 100% about buying well I have always believed you get what you pay for with these thimgs

[framemaker]

A cabinet maker/wood worker mate of mine has one of these Festool Domino biscuit jointer and raves about it, I would image if you could set up an accurate jig for quickly making mortice joints on mitres it could be a very effective system for joining large frames. It was also in a recent article in PFM along with other ideas on using biscuits (not the ones from A&T) for joining frames.

[gesso]

A cabinet maker/wood worker mate of mine has one of these Festool Domino biscuit jointer and raves about it, I would image if you could set up an accurate jig for quickly making mortice joints on mitres it could be a very effective system for joining large frames. It was also in a recent article in PFM along with other ideas on using biscuits (not the ones from A&T) for joining frames.

I was at the V&A A while ago and saw an exhibition that was framed in a large beech moulding which used an almost exact system as the one in the link below.
http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/ ... x?id=29994

[framemaker]

Some interesting videos there Gesso, and the different coloured wooden splines do look the business!

This frame was joined using Hoffman dovetail keys, then once the glue had set the outside of the corners were cut in with a saw and veneer was glued in then trimmed and sanded flush. I have only played about and experimented with this technique, having seen someone else doing it, but I would like to offer it to customers one day.

[iantheframer]

Got a De Walt machine from Axminster with 1000 free biscuits, had fun playing over the weekend

[Keadyart]

Nice job Ian,

any comments regards ease of use,time taken,type of moulding used etc.It certainly looks a neat and high end finish.
Cheers
Brian

[Keadyart]

Did you have to fabricate a jig,or was there one with the joiner?

[iantheframer]

I have made this type of joint before using a router. I originally wanted the biscuit machine to strengthen the joint on some of the very large mouldings we use. Having seen the video as linked in the above postings it seemed to make a purchasing decision much easier.

With regard to how, I pretty much followed the instructions. I found it not necessary to make the jig as the machine has adjustments that are suitable unless you are using incredibly deep mouldings; I simply set it at one height. Made the cuts and turned the frame face down and did the same again

One thing to note that when sawing the wedges off you must use a specialist flush cut saw any standard saw will destroy the frame.

With regard to moulding, any natural frame can be used as long as there is a sufficient thickness. I used Sepele wedges to show the technique in contrast, but any combination of woods could be used depending on the effect required Remember to make sure the grains cross or the joint will be very weak.

One last point. I underpinned the frame first if you do work out where the cuts will be and keep the nails well clear, you really don’t want to hit them with the saw blade!

[Keadyart]

Thanks Ian for the rundown.
Cheers
Brian

[framejunkie]

I have used these joints for a couple of years. The method descibed using the biscuiter is called a Keyed Mitre. I've been doing them on a router table, but having seen that jig for the biscuiter it looks less cumbersome - try routing a corner of a 4'x6' frame where you have to move the frame against the table and you'd see what i mean!

FWIW i have a very cheap biscuiter - £50 from Screwfix. Its branded as Erbauer - Screwfix's own pseudo-German branding for their cheap Chinese power tools. It makes the most appalling sound as the motor is rottenly cheap, but it does the job ok. I always buy good quality power tools when i can afford them though - you really do get what you pay for

[framejunkie]

Forgot to mention - i use keyed mitres for thin closed corner frames(for fat ones i use a conventional biscuit) - it is the best way I've found of stopping the paint cracking over the mitre

[iantheframer]

try routing a corner of a 4'x6' frame where you have to move the frame against the table and you'd see what i mean!

Yes that was the problem I had. Only real disadvantage with the biscuit machine is the cut depth is limited, so the corner I did is the maximum size possible, would be nice to make the keys longer