Signatures on Mountboard - What to use??

[Kevlar]

Hi all, hoping you can help me with my first question on this forum only having joined a short while ago. Seeing the types of advice and info so far, I am sure I will get the answers I need here. So here goes:-

As part of the photography and framing services we offer, we are starting to provide signature frames to our customers. Basically a framed mounted photo/photos with wide border on which the couples guests, usually weddings/birthdays etc can sign the mount board serving as nice reminder for the couple/person who's event/day it is. I'm really looking for advice on what to use to write on the mount board with, to ensure the mount board is not compromised either by people smudging ink, it not drying properly, ink reacting with the mount, signatures fading etc.

We can ensure their is control over the actual signing therefore limiting risks such as people writing in wrong places etc but clearly want to get the writing medium right. So should I use pen, pencil, other? If pencil will that face too quickly? I could go on but at the risk of putting you all to sleep with my ramblings and therefore not getting any answers I better leave it there.

Thanks in advance to all who read this and especially those that send me their advice

[prospero]

Hi Kevlar.

The only really permanent medium is pencil.

Inks vary. Proper artists inks like India Ink is pretty permanent. But the practicalities of getting the guests to use it would be a pain. You should only really use it in a dip nib pen. It will clog up a reserviour pen and ruin it. I wouldn't trust inks unless you have time to carry out lighfastness tests over a long period. I've seen sepia sigs vanish completely.

Marker pens also vary. Some are more permanent than others. Blacks will last longer than blues, but if they don't vanish altogther they will go purplely in time.

Coloured makers - Wouldn't trust them.

Stick to graphite pencil. If you want to add a bit of variety, use several grades, hard to soft. If you must have a bit of colour, you could try watercolour crayons. (the proper artists sort).

[JFeig]

Pigma® brand artist pens are the only markers that I know, that are made with pigment and not dyes.

[Jonny2morsos]

Zig Millenium pens are pigment based.

If you can't get them locally we can get them from one of our art material suppliers but they come in boxes of twelve. PM if you would like us to get them.

[Roboframer]

I'd go for 2B pencils.

Also it's a good idea to have a cheap photocopy of the actual photo, just incase the nephew (Denise's brother), or someone like me, decides to remove a few teeth from the bride, or give her a moustache and an eye patch.

Another idea is to cover the sides of the mount with removable tape - like 3M 811 - about 10mm in, so that the signatures do not go under the lip of the frame, or better still, if these are all within a range of repeat/standard sizes, have a few frames put aside for just this.

[Graysalchemy]

Another idea is to cover the sides of the mount with removable tape - like 3M 811 - about 10mm in, so that the signatures do not go under the lip of the frame, or better still, if these are all within a range of repeat/standard sizes, have a few frames put aside for just this.

I agree with putting it in the frame it is going in with out the glass, then their is no chance of someone pulling of the tape to squeeze in another signature. I wouldn't bother putting in a photocopy though it is a photo after all and can be replaced if need be.

I have had one back in for framing which had far more long lasting damage than graffiti on the print. It had a not very complimentary comments about the father of the brides new girlfriend written by a rather drunk mother of the bride, in light fast pen. Not a nice thing to do on your daughters big day, and something which would last for ever more, and could never be rectified.

Ah well hell has no furry like a woman scorned.



AG

[Kevlar]

Hi all, thanks for the feedback to date, lots of good advice, especially about being careful of disgruntled mother of the bride

The general message i'm getting is use 2B Graphite pencil, which sounds a good approach and smooth mount board, so this is what I will go with, albeit i might get a couple of Zig millenium pens and see what these look like too, but pencil will be default. Had already thought about the border issue so planning to provide mount in frame to avoid potential of oversigning. I will take the risk of the photo being defaced as can print another for minimal costs if need be. The mount board being spoilt by unsavoury comments is one I will need to consider though, guess I will need to scan the wedding party for the sensible one who will either oversee the signing, don't spose a sign saying "Only complimentary comments and signatures please - remember this is the for bride and groom" will stop the drunk and disorderly - more like an invite. Think we may try and coordinate people signing once cake has been cut, therefore oversee it ourselves in between photos.

Thx again all, really useful.

Kev

[Graysalchemy]

Good idea to supervise. If it is signed in pencil it does give you the opportunity to erase offensive messages before the bride sees it. Writing upside down is the other common one you see also.

You probably already have a tried and tested layout, but most of my photographers will give me a 12 x 8 portrait print taken prior the wedding. I put this in the top left of a 24 x 20 landscape mount with 3" border top and left hand side, giving plenty of space for people to sign to the right and below the print. Then after the wedding the bride and groom can choose a formal wedding photo to go in the mount.

I have tried v grooves to guide people where to sign but no matter how big you cut the mount there is never enough space around it and people will always sign right up against the edge, so putting it in the frame is a must.

Good luck

[Kevlar]

I like the idea of the mount laid out the way you describe, will do one and see what it looks like. Picture is 12 x 8 taken on pre-wedding shoot and as you say option to change it following wedding - likely for wedding guest group photo potentially. We are planning to provide differing levels of signature frame, from single centred picture to multi aperture up to 12 5 x 3.5 pictures in a 34 x 24 frame. all with wide borders for signing. We provide a basic frame and picture in the wedding package and are planning to offer increased sizes, more expensive mouldings and variations at extra cost, so i like your idea as a further option - cheers

Any guidance on size of border/writing space based on number of guests?

Kev

[Graysalchemy]

Sorry I haven't but I always go for a 24 x 20 and they always come back full. If you make it too large then it may be too big for the clients wall and as a result never get used.

[shiltonphoto]

Just out of interest, how much does everyone charge for this kind of thing? I've done these before for friends as part of their wedding gift but I've now been approched by a photographer who is looking to offer this as part of his standard package. Now, obviosuly, when people add the word "wedding" infront of anything (cake, photography, car, venue etc...) prices start to edge upwards. Not that I'm looking to overprice things but....

I know how much I'd charge normally, but I know the photographers will probably double/tripple the cost to the wedding couple (its not uncommonn for a 100%+ mark-up on wedding frames from the photographer's I know). It'd rightly nark me if he/she was making a vast amount of money out of something I sold to him for a normal rate, even though he'd be just carrying it into the venue with a few pencils in his pocket!

[Graysalchemy]

It doesn't matter to me if it was the wedding of the daughter of Sultan of Brunei or a mount to be hung in an old peoples home I don't add premiums because of who or what it is for, I just charge my standard price. If you start adding premiums you will look expensive if someone shops around and my experience of photographers is they shop around and want to keep maximum profit for themselves.

[Roboframer]

I wouldn't charge any more than normal - in fact there's a couple of photographers and a wedding stationer that I charge less for repeat work. If they want to mark it up again, that's up to them.

[Steve N]

Normal price, it doesn't matter to me what the customer is going to do with it, I'm happy with my mark up on materials , the customer (wedding photographer) is happy with it , and the happy couple will be happy (we hope) so it's win win situation.

Steve

[Jonny2morsos]

Normal price, their mark up is not really anyone else's business. They have to manage the wedding signatures along side all their other tasks on the day.

Are you selling them a frame as well? It is a good idea to make sure they take a frame and put the mount in the frame with no glass to make sure no one signs too close to the edge. The glass can be put in at the time the wedding photo goes in.

I encouraged this method with one of my customers and he came back and bought a batch of 12!

[shiltonphoto]

Well thats piece of mind for me then, as I only quoted my normal price (phew!).

There will be a return visit later on as the photographer didn't want to carry the glass arround in the back of the frame or seperate. However, I've let him know that that visit will be FOC - it won't take very long to do and it also seemed to please the chap that he'd be getting something for free which will encourage him to use me again - so winners all round!