chop service

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Grahame Case

Re: chop service

Post by Grahame Case »

just checking if i've got all of the chop service operators on our books.

Ashworth & Thompson
Lion
Arqadia
Nielsen
Frinton

any more?
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GeoSpectrum
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Re: chop service

Post by GeoSpectrum »

Wessex?
Alan Huntley
Ashcraft Framing
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Grahame Case

Re: chop service

Post by Grahame Case »

Oddly Wessex don't as Wessex, but do as frinton mouldings.. Confusing
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Re: chop service

Post by GeoSpectrum »

I didn't know that, I thought that Wessex did their chop through Wessex Fine Art. http://www.wessexpictures.com/wessex_fine_art.html
Confusing?
Alan Huntley
Ashcraft Framing
Bespoke Easels and Self-assembly tray frames
http://www.ashcraftframing.co.uk
Grahame Case

Re: chop service

Post by Grahame Case »

Aren't Wessex fine art a completely separate company from Wessex - but still under the umbrella of the Wessex group. A bit like midas mouldings.
Roboframer

Re: chop service

Post by Roboframer »

WFA and Frinton mouldings are part of the Wessex group - see the links bottom right of their homepage http://www.wessexpictures.com/index.html
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prospero
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Re: chop service

Post by prospero »

Just to confuse things more, Frinton Frames (not to be confused with Frinton Mouldings) do a chop service for their hand finished mouldings.
You can't buy the corner ornaments separately and stick them on though.
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Re: chop service

Post by Bagpuss »

This is a very interesting thread, I will have to have a chat with Mary at the Forum event, I like the idea of keeping 10 mouldings in stock !
The idea of keeping stock as an investment is a bit hard to get my head round, especially after I realised last year that the sea container I was filling up with moulding was costing me an arm and a leg and the majority of the moulding hadn't been used in over 9 months ?!
I think excessive stock can kill off a sole trader, I ended up eBaying the lot at a big loss and handing back the keys to me container :(

All firms, whether it's large manufacturing firms, supermarkets etc. actively look to keep stock levels down and move to Just-In-Time supply, I would like to limit stock in future to mouldings that I know I use a lot and offer a wider range of mouldings on Chop, the customer doesn't know/care and I like the idea that I have a better idea of how much I actually made on a job, not how much I'll make in the future once I've sold a frame made out of the remnants of previous moulding orders.... it is complicated I must admit, will need to investigate further :rock:

I'm looking forward to deep and meaningful discussions like this at the Framer Forum Live event. :clap:

Adam/Bagpuss
My real name is Adam Laver aka "Adam The Picture Framer", just in case you were unsure ; )
Grahame Case

Re: chop service

Post by Grahame Case »

Mary won't be at the event. She'll be too busy playing grandma to her first grandchild
Roboframer

Re: chop service

Post by Roboframer »

Euro Mouldings used to offer a square-cut chop service :!:

Having lots of stock, like me, and none of it recorded on any computer, like me, keeps your brain active!
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Re: chop service

Post by prospero »

After nearly 30 years on the job I can vouch for the way moulding stocks can accumulate. I suppose when you start off all enthusiastic, a rep's sample case is like a big box of choccies. After 10 years or so at my first place, I must have had 500+ mouldings in stock. The place was stuffed to the rafters with it. No shed then. :roll:
When I moved, I sorted out a lot of stuff and sold it off. Partly to slim down the stock but mostly to finance the move.
I didn't buy quite so much after that and I was gravitating toward hand-finished frames anyway. But I did keep an eye out for bargain stuff and disco'd profiles that I could refinish. I still have heaps of moulding. Some very useful, some not so useful. The funny thing is, I have had some of it for so long that I am actually reluctant to use it. It's like an old friend. :?
No idea how much. Must be 100,000ft in my No.2 shed. If I made it all into frames of some description, I wonder how many I could do? 20,000 12x10s? £15 each? Luvly Jubbly. :lol:
Probably got enough glass scraps to fill them too. :|
If nothing else, it's a hedge against inflation. Come to think of it, there is some in the hedge bottom as well. :giggle:
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Re: chop service

Post by Bagpuss »

Grahame Case wrote:Mary won't be at the event. She'll be too busy playing grandma to her first grandchild
Now that certainly trumps the Framers Forum event :D I shall have to Pop in for a chat when I'm visiting my old work mate who left London to move back to Scotland with wife and young daughter for a better quality of life and to be near Grandparents, he didn't like the East London accent she was developing either :Slap:
My real name is Adam Laver aka "Adam The Picture Framer", just in case you were unsure ; )
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Re: chop service

Post by Bagpuss »

Mary Case GCF wrote:We were against chop at first, in fact for the first 18 years in business. Then we saw the light! At its height, my stock holding in mouldings was up to £9k. That is money that could have been spent better elsewhere in the business. And that was only 350 different mouldings, 60% of which languished in my workshop gathering dust and getting damaged waiting for the day when someone might chose it. Now we only stock 10 mouldings and offer 1500 chop. It is a win-win situation for us.

We charge our customers length price but still include a wastage factor which covers the extra cost to us of the chop mouldings. We can offer expensive mouldings which previously we wouldn't have. It's up to the customer to decide if something is too expensive anyway. Our profits are up and our customers come back because they know we offer a choice that no-one else in our area does.
We discussed exactly this point with Paul and Eric from Lifesaver last night at they agreed with us. The majority of framers in the US use chop and many of the moulding suppliers in the UK offer their whole range as chop. They must all think it is a good idea. It helps the suppliers too, as they have the same issues with mouldings in their catalogues that sit in the warehouse for years on end. With chop, they can rotate stock and offer a wider selection
I wanted to post this quote of Mary's again because I've started to look at my ever increasing moulding stock and once again my thoughts turn to CHOP... what makes this of particular interest is that I have been following on Facebook the refurbishment of Mary and Grahame's Gallery over Christmas, http://www.blackhallframinggallery.co.uk
The Framing display is fantastic,(have a look ) hundreds of different chevrons on display and I've been thinking about reducing the range of mouldings I carry :?
Reading the above quote earlier today, my jaw dropped when I read that Mary and Grahame only stock 10 mouldings BUT offer 1500 on chop ?! It's obviously working for them, I'd be interested to hear from anyone else who is also a CHOP convert, anyone who is just starting out will soon realise the perils of ever increasing moulding stock ....
My real name is Adam Laver aka "Adam The Picture Framer", just in case you were unsure ; )
Roboframer

Re: chop service

Post by Roboframer »

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Re: chop service

Post by Not your average framer »

Speaking off reducing stock levels of mouldings, we are doing just that, right now. I don't know how much moulding I have in stock, but it's way too much and I'm in the process of massively reducing it. Unfortunately, expecting your suppliers to always have stocks of everything in their catalogue, is just not realistic. You have to keep adequate stocks to make your business run efficiently, but too much cash tied up in stock is just not profitable, or good for cash flow.

However, I've never used anyone's chop service to date. It just does not appeal to me. Since you pay (perhaps 50%) extra for using the chop service and usually the chop service is generally for the more expensive mouldings, if I must pay the extra, I'd rather have the left over bits of an expensive moulding for the extra money. If it's a nice moulding, I reckon there's still a good chance of making something saleable from what's left over.
Mark Lacey

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Re: chop service

Post by Bagpuss »

Roboframer wrote:
I've just "LIKE"d that Facebook photo Robo :clap: I'm not far off you myself :sweating:
My real name is Adam Laver aka "Adam The Picture Framer", just in case you were unsure ; )
Mary Case GCF

Re: chop service

Post by Mary Case GCF »

Mark. I think you've missed the point of what I was saying. As you can see from our recent refurbishment, our profitability has increased enough for me to afford to do this. That is entirely down to moving to chop. I thought the way you do before I saw the light (You need a Grahame!). It needs a big mindset change. Once I realised that everyone has a different opinion of what is "expensive", I could see that my business could benefit from less money tied up in useless stock and more spent in developing the business.
As regards the price of chop, as opposed to length- that is covered by the wastage involved in length. Most suppliers have a good turnaround on chop orders and out of stocks are advised quickly.The majority of customers are happy to wait or to choose another frame. The fact that both Lion and Frinton now offer all their range as chop (Ashworth have done so for donkey's years and Nielsen for a few years - come on, Arqadia- you know it makes sense!) must mean that suppliers think it's a good idea which will benefit both them and their customers and which is likely to be taken up by more and more framers. As I said in my original post, it's a win-win situation for us.
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Re: chop service

Post by Abacus »

Fresh from reading this interesting thread I've just priced up a frame that came in today in a fairly expensive arqadia moulding (737071000 at £6.57 per m length or £9.20 per m chop)

Frame is 780mm x 1040 mm.

2 x 3m lengths - £39.42
1x chop - £35.62

So save about £4 on the chop, but get about 2m of left overs if I get 6m. I'll get the 6m and wait to use the offcuts, which i'll sell (eventually) for about £30.
stcstc

Re: chop service

Post by stcstc »

well you will sell if it doesnt get damaged or whatever sat in the shop waiting to be sold etc
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Re: chop service

Post by IFGL »

I have seen Abacuses work shop, every thing is very neat and tidy, I bet there is little damage.
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