Feedback on Simons BACK 10

[Not your average framer]

Some time back I was planning on trying Simons BACK 10, but due to being given the wrong order code I ended up with BACK 08 instead. Now having cleared my BACK 08, I'm thinking of getting a box of BACK 10.

I've got a sample, I like what I see, I like the price and it's a perfect colour match for my stock of gummed paper tape. As I mostly use of gummed paper tape and since BACK 10 has been around a while now, I thought I'd ask for some feedback from others who have been already using it with gummed paper tape.

Thanks in anticipation,
Mark

[birdman]

Hi Mark,

We have used it for a while now and it has become our standard backing board. The licky sticky tape works well with it but beware if you try to remove it dry as it will tear the board. Damping the tape allows it to be removed fairly easily though. We had Back 08 and still have some but we much prefer the 10.

Rolf

[Bagpuss]

I did exactly the same as Mark, ordered the 8 instead of the 10 : ( Just bought some of the BACK10 last week and it seems pretty good, thought I could use it on certain items where conservation is less of an issue and I could mount onto the white paper side and not use a separate barrier ( wouldn't do this on water-colours etc )

regards
B'Puss

[Spit]

Just started using it a couple of weeks ago. It is very nicely priced.

It cuts well, is more solid than artbak and takes SA and gummed tape with no obvious problems. My only concern is the core - I don't know what its made of (should have asked, really) but it looks suspiciously like greyboard. I have no idea how it will react to damp atmospheres.

[Not your average framer]

I don't expect that the core material will be much different to the rest of the pack. Most other so called "conservation" backing boards appear to contain "post consumer waste", some dye the stuff a nice brown colour, but it doesn't change what it is!

If Simons could not say that it met the FATG standards for conservation backing boards, then I've no doubt they would not have told everyone that it is for conservation use. I don't think we need worry about too much on that score. I can't help noticing that the spec for Corri-Cor Archival states that it uses no post consumer waste, but the specs for rest of the range say nothing about this. Big deal, we know what we are getting and can exercise our own judgement on what each job requires. If a supplier does not say otherwise, then we know what to assume.

Obviously for full spec conservation jobs, I would always use an undermount cut from an appropiate specification of mountboard to correspond to the board used for the window mount and in my own particular case I will be offering a different and appropiately priced backing board for pure conservation use,(Artcare foamboard).

I think that BACK 10 will be a very useful way of saving time and money, where customers want it cheap and we can use those cheaper shallow rebate frames, still feel good about what's behind the art and not have to worry about the backing board hanging out the back of the frame, because it does not have the extra bit of mountboard behind the art. I can see this being a very useful addition to my normal stock.

[WelshFramer]

Let me join the queue of those who bought BACK/08 by mistake - in fact I still have about 35 sheets.

BACK/10 seems really good. For cheap frames I'm using it with just a window mount and sheet of glass.

Now pondering how to get rid of lots of BACK/08...

[Not your average framer]

Now pondering how to get rid of lots of BACK/08...

I gave mine away to an out of work friend who is starting his own business. He's had a load of my older stock of moulding too! I'm having a massive clear out at the moment, with a re-organisation phase to follow.

In reality, I'm trying to do too much in a very small shop. Since I have no plans to move, I need to make some changes. I think it's a good time to sharpen things up!

[Spit]

Just had to take off some gummed tape (flumb of the 'only visible after sealed frame' type) it came away ok in the main, but some water got into the corner and completely disintegrated whatever glue was holding the back sheet down to the core... I think in the long term, despite the water resistant coating, it isn't going to be very good in damp conditions.

[Not your average framer]

I think in the long term, despite the water resistant coating, it isn't going to be very good in damp conditions.

That's what appears to happen with water resistant backing boards in general. Anyway it won't be an issue for me, as I would have preferred it without the water resistant coating. As for saoking the tape off, I would not consider doing that. It's just too much fuss and probably a lot quicker to change the backing board if that's what needs doing.

For cheap frames I'm using it with just a window mount and sheet of glass.

My plan too, plus for ready made frames and for backing mounted prints.

I wonder if you can dry mount to it, I'm guessing that the water resistant coating might melt or do something undesirable. The white surface looks very smooth, so who knows it might just be o.k. I'm planning on buying a box in the next couple of weeks, so I'll try it for dry mounting and see what happens.

[simons rep]

Hi Mark,

They beat me to it!!!!

See you Thursday PM

[Not your average framer]

Hi Stewart,

I'll get the kettle on! You might be surprised when you arrive. You remember the big bench in the middle of the shop? Well, I've hired some help for Tuesday and Wednesday and if all goes to plan, the shop will close all day Wednesday and the bench will have been replaced with something much smaller before you arrive on Thursday.

The new workshop layout is happening at last! We have already re-fitted the back room workshop and if time permits we may replace the bench in the middle room as well! See you soon!

[WelshFramer]

Just had to take off some gummed tape (flumb of the 'only visible after sealed frame' type) it came away ok in the main, but some water got into the corner and completely disintegrated whatever glue was holding the back sheet down to the core... I think in the long term, despite the water resistant coating, it isn't going to be very good in damp conditions.

I did try soaking some in water overnight. Once it had dried out it was still intact so I guess the glue had restuck.

Mind you, when I say 'intact' it was intact in the sense that the Virgin Mary might have been said to be intact. It was in one piece but had definitely lost its shape.

[Not your average framer]

My 40 sheets of BACK/10 arrived today, both overdue and battered, courtesy of the courier (no need to name them). Strangely, the driver wanted me to sign for both packs before unloading the second pack from the van. Would that have anything to do with the fact that it was so smashed, wrecked and the contents almost falling out of the split and torn packaging? Surely not!

The first package was almost as bad, so I'll be getting a credit note to cover the resulting loss and extra wastage. Anyway, I digress, I've already started using BACK/10 on a few jobs to see how I like it and this is what I have found so far:

The white surface is wonderfully smooth and more than adequate as a substrate for dry mounting unto.

It has a nice solid feel about it and is obviously a lot tougher that the equivalent corrigated boards.

If you are really determined to do this, it is possible to bond paper to the brown surface using the waterproof coating as a heat activated adhesive, but it take quite a long time in the press to do it and it probably not worth the effort. Not being made for this purpose, it's anyone's guess how durable or reliable this bond might be, so I'm NOT recommending this as a good idea.

However, it does appear to suggest that the reverse surface would be a dry mount friendly and hopefully stable surface to bond to. Why am I saying this? Well, today I have stuck two pieces of BACK/10 together (back to back) and this has resulted in a 5mm thick piece of board with conservation rated white surfaces, alkaline buffered core material, and excellent cutting qualities when used in the mountcutter.

I've already tried covering this small sample with colourmount deep bevel tape and it looks and feels great, with no visible signs of the join between the two boards. So, it seems to me that it is an obvious use of my offcuts to produce some nice crisp deep bevelled accents (and a little extra profit too).

I don't know exactly what the core material consists of, but it clearly is something of good quality because it cuts so smoothly and evenly. It also provides a great bevel surface for getting the tape to bond onto and will permit significant pressure to be used, or even burnishing the tape onto the bevel to ensure really crisp smooth bevels.

Over the next week or two I will try and determine a suitable and easy method and medium for bonding sections of the board together in this way. Following this, if there's anything worth mentioning, I'll posting what I find.

[WelshFramer]

I've not tried cutting it on the CMC yet as I wondered if it might be rather tough for the blade holder - maybe I should give it a go. It did occur to me that it would make great packaging for posting frames - just need to design a template with v-grooves in the right place.

So which side are you using for dry mounting artwork? Presumably the white side would be better - but in that case, is there a risk of the brown side sticking to the foam mat?

[Not your average framer]

So which side are you using for dry mounting artwork? Presumably the white side would be better

Hi Mike,

Yes, definately the white side. It's obviously suitable for facing the art / mount and not being an unknown material, there's no doubt about the longevity of the drymounted bond.

is there a risk of the brown side sticking to the foam mat?

No none what so ever! Even using a lot of heat, (I turned the temp control on my tacking iron upto max), the time taken to get any adhesion was a really long time.

I've not tried it yet, but I think the brown surface will be drymount friendly. The waterproof coating appears to be a polymer of some sort.

It's not a wax coating, as it is so difficult to get it to bond without resorting to a lot of heat, but the fact it has the potential to bond, (albeit at a higher temperature), should be good news with regard to dry mounting onto the same coating.

If it will soften even sligthly at normal dry mounting temperatures, I'm hoping for some degree of cross linking between the polymer coating and the polymer in the dry mount materials. This is of course only when I want to stick the brown surfaces of two of these boards together.

[WelshFramer]

Back 10 is certainly versatile. I've already had a couple of artists take samples to test as a medium for painting.

If the painting were done on the backing board and just needed glass and a window mount it might give a new lease of life to all those mouldings with tiny rebates.

[Spit]

A couple of artists already take small mountboard offcuts for their classes, I'll be giving them the back 10 offcuts as well. Saves me having to dump or burn them!

[Not your average framer]

Hi Mike,

Since I now no longer stock any MDF, I'm planning to use Back 10 as a replaceable bench top working surface.

Also the waterproof side of left over scraps works well as a surface for mixing touch up materials and paints when touching up frames.