'Home Working' - a nagging doubt ...

[mikeysaling]

been mentioned before but insurance ! your normal home contents will not cover the business or anyhing to do with it - make sure you are covered appropriately for your operation - dont just add the value of your kit to the contents of your home! they wont pay if things go t**s up.

Bit like using your car for business (do you?) thats only social domestic and pleasure doesnt even cover commuting!! (most policies anyway)

[Nigel Nobody]

Its just the jump from zero overheads, to £800 per month, scares me to death. Granted its the price of business, but I've no small business experience apart from my recent crash course of reading anything I can get my hands on...

I would recommend getting some good financial advice and if you haven't done so already make a business plan that includes all the outgoings, the projected incomings, and what you want as an income.
I wouldn't consider doing this unless you have it all worked out.

[Gesso&Bole]

Adam

don't stress about 'notifying' the Council. You will find that the way to do it, is to contact the Planning dept by 'phone, and ask them for advice. This is a key part of the role of a planning officer, and they will explain what the parameters are. For example, you say, I am thinking of doing this, I expect to have x number of customers visiting, and I want to put a sign up - would I be able to do this, or would I need planning permission?

Obviously rules and attitudes vary from place to place, but much better to make the call, and find out what the situation is.

I personally hate working from home, I like to get out of the house, and be in my own place where I am the boss!

[huntvambo]

I've been working from home since last September, full (cramped) workshop in the garage and the front dinning room for meeting customers.

I think I've done everything by the book:
- informed the tax man and pay my NI
- informed the insurance company I'd been with for several years, they declined to even quote! So I'm now with the NFU and have their Home and Lifestyle policy which covers buildings and contents, equipment, public liability, etc. It did cost ~ £200 more than my old policy.
- informed my mortgage company, they sent out a standard letter that said I had to do this, that and the other and if I didn't comply within certain time constraints they'd change my mortgage to a business one at additional cost, yada, yada, yada. I sent them full details of the nature of the business and copies of the insurance, email from the local planning dept., etc. When I actually spoke to the person responsible he was more than helpful and understanding and everything was sorted, it was just the tone of that original standard letter.
- car insured for business use, visiting customers and collecting supplies.
- I spoke to my neighbors and told them about my plans.
- I spoke to the local planning office and had a couple of informal / drop in meetings with them and they sent me an email saying that with the information provided, the fact the garage could still be used as a garage (no structural changes, still two doors at the front), in their opinion at the current time no planning consent was necessary, a bit woolly but it satisfied the mortgage company.
- I keep a full set of accounting books which I’ve submitted to my account and had approved.
- joined the FATG, I know not everyone on here “likes” the FATG but I thought it gave me some level of credibility.
- I bought and read books.
- I bought new quality equipment (Morso, Ultimat Gold, Cassess underpinner, Fletcher 3100 wall cutter, hand tools) and a secondhand Keencut Oval.
- I built 2 of my own benches, 3' x 5' with lift up tops - the top work surface is hinged and lifts up to reveal the Ultimat under one and the Oval 6 under the other and then under those is more storage space, although I keep the mountboard in the spare bedroom.
- I went on a week long FATG recognized training course.
- I since taken and passed my GCF exam and hope to do at least one or all of the other exams in due course.

Advertised through a quality local interest magazine with a circulation of 12,000, only delivered about a 1000 of the 3000 flyers I had printed, I’ve got a website but getting enough business is still a struggle but I’m getting a good level of repeat business and recommendations and I excepted that summertime will be quieter, but it’s not a bad time of year to be quiet!

And of course I have all of you to thank for unlimited help, advice and even use of equipment - Framemaker and Big Ada

Paul
Framed in Alvechurch

[pinkybanks]

I would recommend getting some good financial advice and if you haven't done so already make a business plan that includes all the outgoings, the projected incomings, and what you want as an income.
I wouldn't consider doing this unless you have it all worked out.[/quote]

I've produced a business plan but the truth is, it’s nothing more than pie in the sky, because you have to estimate your projected incomings. With no real bench mark or previous year of trading I could potentially be several hundred percent out on predicted income. That renders the plan obsolete and worthless. I'm lucky enough to be able to support myself independently, so don’t want to be beholden to any financial institution. I think I can drive the business forward and offer many unique selling points over and above other local framers, and although scared witless of loosing the shirt off my back, am not scared of taking a chance
As for financial advice, I do hear you, but truth is...every one wants a piece of your wallet, including the self professed specialist advisors. I'm shroud enough to get the right people onboard, and for me the only person I need in my camp, is a bloody good accountant. The so called professional services of a financial advisor, or should I say insurance seller, well...id honestly rather give my money to a cancer charity.
We are all aware of the risks of business, but it is this that makes us different for Mr and Mrs Normal, I'll accept a little risk for a quality of life and the satisfaction of working for myself.

[Gesso&Bole]

Hi Piggybanks

I take your point that a business plan is not easy to produce, but it is a vital tool for any business, particularly a new start up. As to 'pie in the sky' and 'worthless' then I would respectfully suggest that you are not approaching the process in the right manner.

If you wanted to come over to Derby (not far from you) I would be very happy to talk the thing through with you (I have spent many years being involved with, and working with start-up businesses as a consultant).

No charge, but if you find it useful, you can buy me lunch!

[Trinity]

Business rates?
(see earlier post). Do all just forget them when working from home?

[JamesC]

I did a business and law degree before working at a commercial printers for a while in marketing/estimating/IT then settign uop my own canvas print and poster business, framing came two years later after outsourcing at first. Working in a real printers with all it's problems gave me the confidence that "anyone can play guitar", or run a print business.

I started from a home office and garage and later a shed for spraying. Was my mum's garage in fact but we had the fortune of being in the middle of 2 acres so no massive neighbour worries and all our own parking. 4 years on I've got two adjoined units and 4 people work here, two 25 years experienced framers and two business grads - a decent mix. 5 if you include the photographer who does shoots on saturdays.

I didn't have a sign or encourage visitors and just wanted to do web at first. I also remembered from my degree that you only needed planning permission if you were going to change the "main use" of the building. With one bedroom out of five and a garage I didn't deem that to be necessary and that was going to be my story if challenged - don't let the bastards with the clipboards get you down - my Dad had told me all about them. I was registered as a business, did all my tax returns and had insurance. I also used my Dad's commercial waste bin at his premises, a car workshop and petrol station. Now I mainly just get cardboard waste and take that for free to a local skip company who open at 6am so can go before work. I still put the odd bits left with my dad or other local businesses I've managed to come to arrangements with.

My unit is 5mins walk from my new house but I tend to take the Van because it's useful. I got a 6 month lease with monthly rolling after that so no big commitment and hoping to buy own soon.

I doubt it will be a shop though - just too much hassle, commitment, money and more people with clipboards. I may even go back to a house with outbuildings if location is good. Then maybe have a dog or whatever and a nice life. Parking is as important as anything and work is growing for me all the time. Still tough but getting there quite quickly...

I would definitely say think long and hard about seperate shop and workshop - can no longer get small business rates relief with two sites and need someone to man the shop all the time even when it's dead. I've been told that from someone whose done it and regretted it. Better to be framing and nip out when someone calls and the bell rings.

Must dash, cheers

[pinkybanks]

Hi Piggybanks

I take your point that a business plan is not easy to produce, but it is a vital tool for any business, particularly a new start up. As to 'pie in the sky' and 'worthless' then I would respectfully suggest that you are not approaching the process in the right manner.

If you wanted to come over to Derby (not far from you) I would be very happy to talk the thing through with you (I have spent many years being involved with, and working with start-up businesses as a consultant).

No charge, but if you find it useful, you can buy me lunch!

WOW, what a wonderful offer and I'd love to take you up on that offer, I'll PM you this weekend if thats ok. TYVM

[Dermot]

Always wondered why they are call “business plans” when in reality they are “business guesses”

[prospero]

Good point Dermot. How the heck are you supposed to work out your 'projected earnings'. In some businesses it may be possible to get a rough estimate. But the ART market in general is notoriously fickle.
Taking just the 'art' side of my biz, I can work out how long it takes me to complete a painting and how many I can do a year X the selling price. But if nobody actually buys them, it's all academic. But if I went a year without selling anything but carried on producing regardless, I would be accumulating assets, if not cash. The next year I could earn twice as much as is theoretically possible by selling all of that years output and the year before. A concept the my bank manager steadfastly fails to get his head around. He also failed to appreciate that my job was safe while he could get the boot first thing in the morning on the whim of some spook from upstairs.

[Dermot]

Let me qualify before anyone gets the wrong idea, the above statement was made with a degree of biting wit.

Of course a business plan of some sort is a necessity as it gives you a road map of some sort to follow, now as you journey along you may find that you have to change directions some what and even your destination may change none the less a business plan will give you a good idea if you are on the right track.

And it gives you a tool to measure progress from, remember “what gets measured gets done” is very sound business advice.

Can I ask if the £800.00 a month is just rent!!!, if it is only rent you need to factor in many other costs to open the door of a business every business day, electricity, heating, rates, decoration, insurance, support staff if you have to be away from the shop, etc etc etc. the cost of opening the door of a business is much higher than just the rent.

How do I know this back in my dark age of business when I thought business training and the likes of business plans were a load of rubbish, I opened a shop, thinking it would cost me XXX a month what a shock I got ….I wont go into the details in any great way buf it is enough to say it was a very very expensive lesson I learned.

So my little but of advice would be do the business plan, think of it with the view that at the very least it will be a good business training course for you, it will sharpen you abilitys around business for one thing.

An how do you make a business plan !!!!, get a note pad and a pen and start writing, putting your ideas on paper will help you clarify your thoughts and get rid of the fear factor you have around the move into a business premises.

[pinkybanks]

The £800 consists of mortgage repayments, business insurance,estimated business rates post reduction (still TBC), utilities gas-sparks-water and phone, banking fees and chip and pin rental. Still to be confirmed, commercial waste wear and tear,
fuel to and from business,

[Dermot]

OK buying a premises ….factor an interest rate upwards which is almost certain to happen in the not so distant future also check out what the premises would rent for if you were not to use it.

At a guess I would expect it is going to cost you around 2k a month to open the door of you business to include some sort of very limited part time support staff for when you cannot be there.

If the numbers stack up it is a great time now to consider buying.

Good luck with your plans.

[Gesso&Bole]

Business Plans can be very very useful, or completely useless depending how you go about it . . . .

As to Prospero's point about inconsistencies of art sales and building capital vs cash, then a good business plan would allow you to see the impact of that happening, and see how long you could continue to build up stock before you ran out of cash. I can see where the Bank manager is coming from, but then again if you wanted someone who REALLY understood business, then the LAST person I would look to would be a Bank Manager, as by definition, to be a Bank Manager, they have NEVER run a business.

[Custard]

I took early retirement but decided to move to the south coast and run a business from home. I'm lucky in that there's no mortgage and I was one of the last on a good company pension, so I don't need framing to put food on the table. But after 18 months all I can say is I wish I'd done it ten years ago!

The way my little operation works is that I leaflet local homes, advertise in the local newspaper, and maintain a website. In addition I'm active in local art and photographic societies, which generates a surprising amount of business. I offer a "framing at home" service, where I'll call on a potential customer with a compact selection of mountboards and mouldings plus a few miniature examples of double mounts etc, and we'll look at the artwork in situ to make a choice. Despite savagely paring back on the range of options I offer I honestly don't think I've lost more than 5% of business due to inadequate stock.

The advantages of this business model as I see them are,

1. You turn over raw materials pretty quickly, need less space, don't have cash tied up in redundant inventory, and cut back on scrap and wastage.

2. You get a real insight, and develop a real rapport, with your customers.

3. You can genuinely tailor the service to your customers specific needs, for example trading up to UV or low-reflecting glass when the location demands it.

4. I also offer a hanging service, besides giving me a massive point of difference over competition this is really a margin booster. The critical point is not just hanging a single picture, but the more complex jobs such as a run up a flight of stairs or groupings of pictures. It's been a real eye-opener how many customers defer framing because they're worried about hanging or don't have the DIY skills hang multiple pictures level!

5. I had a workshop built on my property and it's far better than anything I could reasonably have on a high street.

6. I moved to the south coast to spend more time sailing, and the flexibility of this form of trading suits me well. When the weather was bad I put extra hours in, leafleting new areas and drummed up a lot of business. Right now I'm taking advantage of the sunshine, doing no leafleting or advertising and consequently trade has dropped right off to just a day or a day and a half a week, which suits me down to the ground! This was the same pattern last year, but when the autumn gales blew in I started calling old customers and stepped up advertising, and the business bounced right back. Apart from being a taxi driver I can't think of another way of earning a living where your so able to turn the income wick up or down!

I'm convinced that framing as a business is at a cross roads. There's absolutely a role for the specialised high street framer, but only if they genuinely offer a very high quality service (conservation framing, specialised framing of textiles or 3D objects etc) and charge accordingly. But the internet framers aren't going to go away, and they will continue to nibble away at the bottom end.

The garage framer lives somewhere between the two, serving customers who haven't the confidence to order over the internet, but pricing just that little bit more keenly than the high street. In my case I work the special opportunity of access to the customer's home to keep my margins up, actively hunting for add-on opportunities like hanging or re-framing existing items in the customer's home to match. The only cloud on the horizon that I can see is that the likely increase in unemployment, plus the certainty of waves of retiring baby boomers, may put a lot more garage framers into the market.

[Trinity]

That chimes with me Custard, a good post.

[mikeysaling]

custard - that was a brilliant post I certainly echo the bit

The only cloud on the horizon that I can see is that the likely increase in unemployment, plus the certainty of waves of retiring baby boomers, may put a lot more garage framers into the market.

A lot of my pals are nearing retirement and know that i only frame medals and have been enquiring ' how much to set up - wouldn't affect you - i won't be doing medals etc etc' thing is to do it from home doesn't cost a lot - that 25% of pension fund certainly will cover it.

lets see how things go

[Roboframer]

I took early retirement but decided to move to the south coast and run a business from home.

Your profile says 'London'

I'm convinced that framing as a business is at a cross roads. There's absolutely a role for the specialised high street framer, but only if they genuinely offer a very high quality service (conservation framing, specialised framing of textiles or 3D objects etc) and charge accordingly. But the internet framers aren't going to go away, and they will continue to nibble away at the bottom end.

The garage framer lives somewhere between the two, serving customers who haven't the confidence to order over the internet, but pricing just that little bit more keenly than the high street.

It's far more complex than that - there are high st framers that cater well for the bottom end and can match internet prices excluding p+p - which they don't have to charge - some may even be internet framers as well, and there are high st framers claiming to be the best thing since sliced bread and turning out no better, who could also be internet framers.

Garage framers offering collection/delivery services can also be internet framers and they could charge the same price for an internet order as they could for a home visit - probably less. A few clicks of a mouse, some wrapping and a trip to the Post Office/phone call to a carrier (bearing in mind it's unlikely a successful business will be talking one frame/customer per trip to the PO/call to the carrier) is far less hassle than 2 round journeys to someone's home to collect/deliver with the first trip taking quite a lot of design time.

There are many framers out there claiming to 'specialise' but sometimes when you read their websites/visit their shops/get one of their jobs in for re-glazing - even see them demonstrate at a trade show - you (as a pro framer) see they are specialised in nothing but BS!

What the high st framer needs to 'specialise' in is ..... framing - anything. "Ooooh a sea shell - sorry! Got any needlework? I can do needlework"

When I first started from home I did some extremely complex market research - Yellow Pages! How many framers within a 10 mile radius? A couple or three - one right in my village doing the collection/delivery thing but with a workshop accessible to the public that knew of them, plus quite a few local shops, mainly art/craft/stationery shops - even a PO/general store.

3 miles a way a 'gallery' with a seemingly very impressive framing service - a mystery shop revealed it was all subbed out to a place 30 miles away.

3 miles away in the other direction another gallery/framer - but in a toursisty town that most locals avoid for a lot of the year because of ....... tourists! (and all the carp that appeals that does not appeal to those that know there's another town just down the road - minus the castle/cathedral with easier parking)

But back then if the shop I am in now, or any shop in my village was doing what I'm doing now, I'd either not be a framer now or be living somewhere else.

[foxyframer]

Afternoon all

Not been on here for a while and looked back at a post I made on this thread exactly five years ago. Closed the gallery after 37 years and started working from home.

Back in the Spring that time came to an end too and bar the odd customer I dont frame anymore....42 years ....holy moly. That has to be a lifetimes commitment despite having other minor occupations. Somewhere in the dim and distant past I did work for an employer. Not for long though....always said that that you never make a fortune working for someone else.

It has been a good way to bow out of gallery ownership for me, and anyone who has the inclination, space and time to do it.

Now there is a recent government proposal to make working from home far less restrictive,in order to encourage the enterprising among us to go for self employment.