Unpleasant threats from the TV liecence people.

[Not your average framer]

The TV authorities are coming to see if I've got a television in my shop. I've told them that I want an assurance that I their inspector causes any damage to customers property or my own that I want a written assurance that then will accept responsibility. I got threatened with being charged by the police! Why what for?

Also that for health and safety reasons that I want a witness present and their inspector is not to touch anything or go any where near the my various stacks of glass which are everywhere and if he refuses to follow my instructions to this effect and has an accident that they will accept full liability.

Instead of their man listening to me, I got shouted at down the phone by a very agressive and unpleasant man. Being a restorer as well as a framer, if he comes while I am using certain hazardous chemicals, I would want that issue clarified too, but due to being shouted down we never got to that. My own staff have to have a health and safety talk, before I let them into my workshop and I'm told that the inspector should have one too! Unfortunate the man on the other end of the phone, says he can have me charged by the police, for telling his staff that they need a health and safety talk, before they can come in.

My solicitor wants me to draft a letter which he will send to them and that's gonna cost me £30, just to try and cover my ***, in case the inspector is a plonker and has a accident. I'm really annoyed, I'm trying to prevent any health and safety problems and being threaten for doing so. Is this fair? I think not!

[Roboframer]

I could have this coming!

We have had several letters, each one more threatening, asking us if we have a TV on the premises - we don't. (I'm guessing they assume/hope we have a computer that we could watch live TV on - but we don't either)

We put the letters straight in the bin - stuff them - we're supposed to reply using the envelope provided which is not prepaid, we have to put a stamp on it and I'm just not going to do that - they can pay that waster Ross X million a year and yet not provide a pre-paid envelope or the facility to say on-line "I DO NOT HAVE A TV IN THE SHOP"

I hope they do send someone - that would cost far far more than a paltry pre-paid envelope - I won't worry about H&S or anything else - they'll quickly see - apart from the lack of any external TV ariel or an internet connection, that there is simply nowhere to PUT a TV.

I mean, what are they thinking - it's a SHOP - we don't want customers watching TV, we don't want staff watching TV and even if we had a staff room with a TV - what the frell is on in the daytime worth watching anyway!

Surely they are preying on TV via internet - most shops have PCs and just the ABILITY to watch live TV, whether you actually do or not, is good enough for these parasites?

[danchip1]

I'm one of the very odd people in the world that doesnt have a TV...anywhere! so this is a familiar area for me.
At my last address, after many letters, which i ignored, they sent a guy to have a look. I moved last year and had the same letters but i rang and said I had no TV. I assume they looked at my record and decided not to bother coming to visit as its been quiet for over a year now.
I would assume that Liabilty Insurance would be sufficient for the visit?
the last time i looked into this, i dont think live tv on the net is an issue...yet. If you have no ariel plugged in to a tv on the premises, i think that is fine. Watching Iplayer on PC is fine. DVDs fine,
I agree it can be frustrating but i can understand, TV seems to be one of the main drugs of choice in this culture, when i walk down my street at night, EVERY house has TV on, and I can understand why so many are, so it doesnt suprise me that we are guilty til proved innocent!

[Not your average framer]

I won't worry about H&S or anything else

I dont have any choice, my list of chemicals used on the premises includes some very nasty ones
, such as Thymus, Silver Nitrate, Stannous Chloride & Thyurea. I try not to keep these chemicals in stock any more than I need to, for obvious reasons. The Thyurea is used to increase the penetration of the Stannous chloride or the Silver Nitrate and this means that in combination with the Thyurea these Chemicals can be absorbed by contact directly through the skin and straight into the blood stream, after which they can be permanently present in the liver and kidneys. I take a lot of precautions! I you want a laugh Goggle them and you will see what I mean.

I can permanently kill just about anything organic in a customers frame, paper art, or canvas art. If they wish to visit when I have been using any of these, what do I do?

I get asked asked to restore old frames hundreds of years old rescued from farm out buildings, some even with fungus growing out of the frames. You can get some very strange organisms around farms. There are bugs which can eat almost anything and this TV liecencing man thinks I'm joking, when I talk about health and safety.

[WelshFramer]

Maybe you could just wait for the guy to arrive and present him with a waiver form to sign before allowing entry. Once you've explained the hazards to him he'll probably happily take your word for the fact that you have no TV.

We once bought a TV and the guy in the shop recorded our name wrongly on the form. We had a few threatening letters from the licensing people but we ignored them as we had a license in my wife's name. One day a guy with a clipboard arrived at the door and asked for a Mr Copperell - which I recognised as being the name the TV shop had recorded.

I said I'd never heard of a Mr Copperell. He said 'OK', recorded something on his clipboard and we never heard from them again.

I suspect that most of the people who do the leg work are more concerned with getting through their quota of addresses and getting home as quickly as possible so they can put their feet up and watch TV.

[Dave]

I got these for a while after buying the shop. I ignored them, eventually they stopped. Don't wast your money with a solicitors letter, there is only one person who will gain. Merely point out the hazards to anyone entering your shop briefly and calmly, point out that beyond a certain point they are uninsured and you can have no liability for their personal safety. Do all this with a slight squint and a nervous tick, If you can manage to get a little drool to fall out the side of the mouth excellent. Job done, they'll not bother you again.

Dave

[prospero]

Don't get me started.

In my old shop, I always had a TV. Never had a license. I think maybe because the addresses in the village are somewhat ambiguous, it appeared that my (upstairs) workshop was part of the flat next door. Anyhow, when I bought my present premises, I decided to be a good boy and get a license. It's then that I started getting letters. They were all addressed to my old shop. This went on for years (Dear Sir, - Threat - threat - dire retribution - etc). I knew I was covered so I ignored them. Eventually, I rang them up and explained that the premises on their records was now a greengrocers. Anyone else live in a town where there are no house numbers? Each place gets named informally after who ever occupies it. All the locals know where they are, but as for national databases, it's a big jumble. I think I am still listed in the phonebook as "The Old Butchers Shop". Had a few calls trying to sell me bacon slicers.

But Mark Is right about health and safety issues. As well as that there is potential for inspectors to cause damage. This could be quite considerable. I am very choosy about who I let into the non-public areas. Some people are clumsy or just plain stupid. I once had a guy plonk his car keys right on top of an oil painting I had just varnished. Another knocked over a set on very expensive frames I had propped against a chair.

So yes, insist that the buggers don a full bio-hazard suit and take a HS lecture before entering. Also sign a waiver to say that they are responsible for any damage caused. That's personally responsible - not thier employer. Officialdom works both ways.

[prospero]

What happened to detector vans btw?

[Spit]

LCD screens, probably.

[Not your average framer]

What happened to detector vans btw?

All sent to Afgaistan to help with the tele-ban!

[Bill Henry]

Wait a minute! Hold on …

You guys need a license to operate a television set? Do you have to pass a test to see if you can operate the remote safely without endangering the public? If your spouse also watches the same set, do you have to pay more?

In any event, any time you can annoy a government bureaucrat and make his/her life miserable, that’s kudos in my book.

[framejunkie]

Thankfully Bill you don't have to train up or anything, and as far as i know nobody ever got it taken away.

One irony is that if they lock you up for not buying the licence(and for then not paying the fine), you get to watch all day in prison, and you don't need the licence

The good news for the blind is that they get a discount.
Really!

[prospero]

This is how it works Bill. It's all a load of cobblers. The BBC rely on the license money as they don't show ads. Fair enough. All the rest of the gazillions of channels show a few progs between the adverts, but you still have to pay the license even if you don't watch the BBC. Nowadays it's becoming an joke. Not a very funny joke, but there ya go. Do you need a license if you have no TV, but watch TV off the internet? Gawd knows........
Penalties for not having a license are harsher than going out mugging old ladies, but thats the British judicial system for you.

[Bill Henry]

I just Googled the licensing stuff, and discovered, as I’m sure you know,

“You must be covered by a valid TV Licence if you watch or record television programmes as they're being shown on TV. It makes no difference what equipment you use - whether it’s a laptop, PC, mobile phone, digital box, DVD recorder or a TV set - you still need a licence.“

The BBC argument makes sense from one perspective. I would be in heaven if I were able to watch TV without interruption from commercials.

And, I’m not in a position to say whether £142 is worth it (I pay roughly $600/ year for cable TV without any premium movie or sports channels ), but I wonder how much of that £142 actually goes to the BBC and how much is eaten up in administrative costs just trying to collect it?

I would think it would be a cinch to find out from a satellite provider or a cable company how many subscribers they have and use that information to bill people. TV sets that use the FM band would be a bit more tricky, which, I am guessing, is the hassle that NYAF is having with the TV police.

Do you happen to know the percentage of households that do not have cable or satellite? If you have more than one TV set in your household do you have to pay the licensing fee for each set? Or, is it one license per household?

[Roboframer]

If you have more than one TV set in your household do you have to pay the licensing fee for each set? Or, is it one license per household?

One per household; also a child in full time education can have a TV under your licence whilst in college/university, at least there used to be a rule like that.

We don't have a licence at home Because my 92 yr old mother in law lives with us, when she informed them of her change of address they sent her a free one and a rebate on ours!

[MITREMAN]

Hi Robo,
Well thats a good reason to have the mother in law living with you.
Nice One Son

I think you should take her telly away and get her working on the Morso

MITREMAN

[Bill Henry]

Actually, this whole situation is very interesting to me.

You mentioned that the TV authorities threatened you with the police. Do you mean someone from the real police force or someone from the licensing board?

Unless your laws are much different from ours, it would seem to me that the real police or any public official could not enter anyone’s premises without permission unless they had a court issued warrant. Under no circumstances could having a TV be construed as an “imminent threat or threat to public safety”.

If these bureaucrats have the authority to enter someone’s house looking for a TV set, do they also have the authority to search your computer hard drive for downloads?

And, if they do, and if they also found something of a criminal nature (like plans for a Gunpowder Plot or a scheme for fudging Guinness World Records) could you be prosecuted? Or, would that be considered “self incrimination”?

[Roboframer]

You mentioned that the TV authorities threatened you with the police. Do you mean someone from the real police force or someone from the licensing board??

Here's a discussion - 3 pages, this takes you to the third.

http://www.tvlicensing.biz/phpBB3/viewt ... 09&p=11802

[prospero]

Wales' 5 Best TV License Evasion Excuses
TV Licensing in Wales have released the five best excuses for not buying a TV licence.

Their top five was:

1. "No, that's not a TV you can hear in the background, it's a tape of adverts I play to entertain the children" - licence evader, Aberystwyth;

2. "The TV is to keep the cat warm - we don't watch it" - licence evader, Carmarthen

3. "That's not the Weakest Link in the background. Anne Robinson is a friend who is visiting for tea" - licence evader, North Wales;

4. "It's amazing, you're the first person to find this place. We didn't get a licence because we thought you wouldn't find us" - licence evader, Brecon;

5. "I only watch Sky channels so I don't need a licence" - licence evader, Cardiff.


Previous examples of excuses given to enquiry officers include:

"Just because I have a satellite dish on my house, doesn't mean I've got a TV - I've got two pints of milk on my doorstep, but no cow in my garden."

"God told me I must buy the television as he had a very important message for me - he didn't tell me to buy a licence though."

"You'll never get me in court, I'll say I'm insane and pretend to be a helicopter."

[Bill Henry]

Here's a discussion - 3 pages, this takes you to the third.

http://www.tvlicensing.biz/phpBB3/viewt ... 09&p=11802

Thanks, John. I read the whole thread and found it fascinating. It answered all of my questions except whether they can search the hard drive of a computer. I would guess that the use of computers for TV viewing wasn’t a concern or all that prevalent back in 2006.

It’s refreshing to realize that there are some people who are still concerned about civil liberties and cannot be intimidate by the simple servant bureaucrats.

Every few years, our town sends real estate assessors to appraise our land and property. Each time they insist that they need to enter the house - they are looking for things like an “improved” basement so they can value the house higher and tax us more. We always refuse and they always try to bluster their way in.

It gives us a great sense of empowerment.

We would be within our rights to limit their view from the road, but we want them to measure the house dimensions correctly rather than simply guess.