Drymount Digital Images

[John]

Has anybody had any experience with drymounting digital photographs?

We recently drymounted some largish photos (15 x 28in). They were on Epson paper I think, quite heavy and much like 'real' photographic paper.

Because I had read somewhere that these images can be damaged by too much heat, I kept the press time to the minimum (hardbed 190F). However, a week after the job was completed, some air bubbles appeared, so another stint in the press was required and this appears to have worked.

Even so, I am a bit worried that the drymounting may not have 'taken' properly and the problem may recur.

For now, we are spraymounting all digital photos whenever possible. I think this is the lesser of two evils, but may be completely wrong.

Ideas anyone?

[markw]

John

Drymounting "normal" ink jet prints shouldnt present any problems but always ask how the image was printed - some printers use a wax like medium - this will melt - these prints are normally high quality output from design studios - dont think many around now as they have been superceded by ink jet (Giclee) printers. You may have a problem if the work has been printed on a colour laser printer as this uses heat to fuse the colour to the paper - but i would think that a new silicon release sheet would stop any loss of media. The only minor problem i get with ink jet prints is from the silicon sheet leaving a shiny surface to the print - this doesn't seem to affect the framed image. Dry mounting is by far the most potentially damaging process that you put your customers work through - i would always ask them to sign a consent form indicating that the exact nature of the media is uknown and that any damage caused by the dry mounting process was at their own risk - just to be on the safe side.

[Merlin]

What is 'normal' in ink jet photographs. There are so many types of papers around and different inks added to the fact that the favourite photo of 'Granny' was given as a present so the customer has no knowledge at all of the properties- makes our life just a little harder.

I certainly looked at many drymounting systems, but workshop space won in the end (that should be lack of space).

For the past five years we have used cold mounting on all photographs. We use 'Rollataq' (trade name through LIONS) glue. It is archival, non yellowing and non crack. Gives an open working time of 5 mins and certainly permanent. We did purchase the applicator but that is now in storage in favour of the good old Woolworth's 4" foam paint roller. No mess, no overspill and so easy to clean in warm water.

All our photos are mounted onto super smooth board. This does not show the 'orange peel' effect that you see with photos mounted onto mountboard.

We tried using the photomounting sprays. Dangerous... so many fumes flying around the place. Plus depending on the room temperature, it needs time to 'off gas'. If you lay the photo straight away after spraying then the gasses have nowhere to go and you will find little bubbles appearing on the photo as the gasses build up. If the room temperature is warm, then the glue dries too quickly. We have had quite a few rework photos in that were originally fixed with spray adhesive.

A lot of framers and even academic photographic courses use standard PVA to very good effect for mounting photographs. Plus its a lot cheaper, so your mark up is even better

Interesting topic John .. Well done

[John]

Some interesting points here. Mark, you have made me rethink the point of sale strategy.

When dealing with customers who present non-valuable items, and if it is an appropriate treatment, we automatically include drymounting without discussion with the customer. The majority of whom aren't interested and just want a good job done. They end up with exactly what they want and both sides are happy.

In the past when we offered to drymount there would be a bit of explaining to do usually followed by some suspicion regarding the price of this 'extra' service, a bit like the TV salesman trying to flog an overpriced extended warranty. They often refused and I always cringed when the job was picked up, knowing that in a year's time they will notice how cockled their photograph is, and forgetting completely the conversation we had, blame the framer.

A third way will have to be found to deal with the digital photo.

John, we too had a Rollataq but eventually got rid of it as it took a fair bit of maintenance to keep it operating smoothly. I think you need to be using it at least once a day and have a fairly regular cleaning schedule. We found it to be a very unforgiving machine if left for a week without use.

However, it looks like we may have thrown the baby out with the bathwater by not keeping the adhesive. Do you keep the glue in a roller tray? Do you have to clean the roller after a day's use, or do you keep it submerged in the glue? When applying the glue do you stay inside the edge of the paper or do you roll right over the edge? Do you also use the press?

Thanks guys

[Merlin]

The Rollataq is a very good idea, but yes the maintenance cycle is very high, plus i did have a lot of problems with the gauze coming apart. I contacted the manufacturers and they kindly sent me the replacememt parts. But since changing to the 4" roller have not looked back.
We use the Rollataq glue from LIONS and decant it back into the bottle from the roller tray after each use. The roller we wash in warm soapy water. One beauty of the glue, is that you actually only need a very fine coat on the Super smooth board wait approx 3 mins then roller down.
No I do not have a press, but I am looking around for one.. I just use an 6" hard rubber roller. I have found that 'pasting' the board is far better than doing the image, that way no glue seeps under the image to damage it..
What i will also say, is that on the occassion that I have run out of Rollataq adhesive, I have used ordinary PVA glue in a mix of 3 parts glue and one part water. Touching wood, I have had no problems at all, apart from a somewhat longer drying time.
I do lots of course photographs for the local Royal Navy Airbase next to me and have seen no problems at all, with either glue.

I am sure that a heatpress/drymount system has its place. I have never used one, but I do know from my photographic courses that heat can be a major problem with the newer digital printing formats.

One point WRT to customers work. We always tell the customer what type of fixing we are going to use on the image. Knowing full well that once they walk out of the door, then it is forgotten. The real pains are the guys and gals on the college photo courses. Bless them, their instructor says it should be done this way and that is what they want. Because they do not know any better and that is the way it was done in the past.
Fortunately I have just got an inroad to the local college and have taught the students fixing and mounting of their 'precious' works of photographic art. And Oh Boy, didnt the instructor squirm when I said. Never use photo spray adhesive. Funny really.

[ImagesLen]

Has anyone used self adhesive mountboard for photographs ?

[Dermot]

I like the Colourmount product best for Photos…great grab…for posters I like Daler less aggressive than Colourmount …..though Colurmount is my default board now…….quite a few of the US framers who post on the Grumble have stopped using heat for photos and digital images because of the heat problem…. I never had a heat press hence I started experimenting quite awhile ago with self adhesive board....grest results..

[Merlin]

Horses for courses really.. Dermot is just a 'whizz'.

I have tried both Colourmount tac board and Daler repositinable and permanent... I just could not get on with either of them..

We do a fair amount of Photo mounting for the Military airbase near by and with the Tac boards, I do seem to keep getting little air pockets and once the photo is on the board, it is a devil of a job to get off without ruining the surface gloss or stretching the photo... plus I have found with those boards that you get a 'orange peel' type of effect on the glossy photos.

I have not got the room for any type of press or vacuum mount system.

Our latest contract was for 100 @ 12" x 16" glossy b/w photos. We use Rollataq adhesive, but NOT the applicator.. for this we use a cheap Woolworths 4" roller sponge. Easy to wash out and dry..
As for the board we use a super smooth dry mount board which we get from Euro Mouldings.. name escapes me at the moment, coz I am at home.

Roll on the adhesive, wait for about 3 mins for the stuff to go tacky then roller down with a hard rubber roller.. Magic.. not one problem, no air pockets, and a smooth finish.

Plus the profit margin is greater... !!!!!

[Dermot]

John

Even though I get good results with the Self Adhesive board I still hold my breath every time I use it, I only once had difficulty and lucky I had a few spare images……I think I might have a look at the Rollataq adhesive again…I did have a lay flat adhesive a few years ago that I liked but the distributor in Ireland discontinued it and I had to start using S/A boards….ahhh another job for the “to do” list……..what is the Rollataq like with digital images!!!.......I figure if it will work for digital images it will work for just about anything else…

Rgs

[Merlin]

Dermot. I have found no problem with Rollataq for any type of paper ?? fixings.. it is Non Toxic... Non Yellowing... Acid Free No Bleedthrough

Lions No 3228

[Guest]

Hi All,

I read thses postings during the week, and wondered what would be best.

I have just drymounted 12 digitally printed photographs for a photographic HND assessment, and used the following method:

Self Adhesive Board, then place into 'Hard Bed Press' at approx. 75C and turned off the heat and let the bed cool down. One of the best methods I have used and with no affects to either the photographs or to the self adhesive board. Mind you having said that, it did take a bit of time heating the machine up each time, but all in all great results.

Steven
Square Frames

[Guest]

I have used a Scotch/3M product available from Lion. It comes as a thin layer of adhesive attached to a backing sheet, which is peeled off. I have had excellent results with various sized posters on thinnish glossy paper. As no heat is used, there is no risk of damage to the artwork. I don't know what the long-term effects would be.

[hawkins gallery]

I have always used self adhesive board for digital and photographic prints and find the extra tack much better, having read the above its sounds like the Lion glue is good-however, I have a very small workshop and little room for extra cleaning etc,so perhaps it's down to convenience.
Andy

[SquareFrames]

Hi Folks,

I looked for the original posting on this subject, my eyes must be failing me, eh what? This is always a contensious subject, Do you? or Dont you? Framing and mounting any type of photograph is a minefield, that is why the subject is now on the Guild, Framers Committee agenda and will be talked about at meetings from now.

With the cheaper photograph, i.e. school photos, and photos taken by the client, etc. I use either Arqadia's Permanent Fastmount or drymount them using my Hot Bed press. Does not do the photos any harm whatsoever, as they are replaceable. With unvaluable digital photos, i use the fastmoutn again, but this time, I also use the Hot Bed Pres, and once the machine is at the correct temperature, I place the photo in and turn the heat off, letting the adhesive cure properly whilst the machine is cooling down.

With valuable phtotos (I let the client tell me how valuable it is), I use Level 1 of the Guild's Framing standards, 'Museum Standard'. Using this method or explaining this method will decide on the method to be used. Most clients actually like that you have taken the time to explain that their photo is valuable and should not be dry mounted.

There is a super book, Framing Photography by Allan R Lamb (an American chap), its is available through the Guild bookshop. Chris Paschke (Also an American, although a female) also has a super book, called, The Mounting and Laminating Hadbook, a great source of information. I keep both books on hand, just in case. Both books would be advantagous for any framer's workshop.

Steven