What have Gunnar got up their sleeve?

Grahame Case · Post by **Grahame Case** » Wed 19 Dec, 2007 11:19 pm

Another World Premier from Gunnar

GUNNAR is proud to announce a turning point in CMC technology, with the official “world premiere” of a revolutionized CMC to be held at the West Coast Art Fair in Las Vegas at 11:30 am, Monday 28th January, 2008. The future is finally here, and everybody is invited to come along and witness yet another evolution in CMC technology once again by GUNNAR, the market leaders and industry pioneers of computerized mat cutting.

Shortly after this the European premiere will be at the SpringFair, NEC Birmingham, Great Britain and QuadrumSACA in Bologna, Italy

http://www.gunnar-europe.com/

intriguing... very intriguing, wonder what it is...

Spit · Post by **Spit** » Wed 19 Dec, 2007 11:41 pm

I'm hoping it's a major upgrade in their software. Their hardware's fine, but their software is what I can only describe as 'retro'.

Grahame Case · Post by **Grahame Case** » Thu 20 Dec, 2007 10:29 am

Spit wrote:I'm hoping it's a major upgrade in their software. Their hardware's fine, but their software is what I can only describe as 'retro'.

I was having a wee look at the software for the Gunnar systems today ( leaflet) they look okay, and user friendly enough. but yes, its a bit "basic"

osgood · Post by **osgood** » Thu 20 Dec, 2007 7:40 pm

I find the Gunnar software to be excellent. It is very easy to use and gives great results. I don't know what else matters.

There are a number of things in it that don't exist in other brands, like 'Pool mode' which I use very often.

kev@frames · Post by **kev@frames** » Thu 20 Dec, 2007 8:21 pm

leaving the pros and cons of various machines to one side - I very highly rate the Wizard software, which I believe is also used on the Zund and Crescent machines.

I think Gunnar would have a way to go to improve on that.

Must be four cutting heads, one for board, one for glass, one for straight edges, and one for mount decoration, oh and one for cleaning the windows

You heard this unreliable and dubious rumour here first....

Post by **John** » Thu 20 Dec, 2007 8:24 pm

osgood wrote:'Pool mode' which I use very often.

Can you tell us more Ormond?

osgood · Post by **osgood** » Thu 20 Dec, 2007 8:44 pm

John,
Pool mode is useful when you have to cut a number of different size mats from the same colored sheets.
1. First mat is designed including an outside cut.
2. Right click and click on 'add to pool'.
3. Next mat designed including an outside cut.
4. Right click and click on 'add to pool'.
5. Repeat the above steps until all mats are added. There isn't any limit on the number of mats and hence the number of sheets necessary.

There is also an option when 'adding to pool' to select the number of mats you want that are the same size. ie you might want two of one size, six of another, three of another, five of another and some singles, etc.

6. Go to 'Pool Mode' and the software automatically designs the layouts economically, on as many sheets as necessary.

All you have to do is place the sheets in the machine and press 'cut', one at a time until all sheets are cut.

I hope you can understand the explanation!

kev@frames · Post by **kev@frames** » Thu 20 Dec, 2007 9:19 pm

that sounds very good.

on the wizard one can see the previous mats cut on any board (session) on the screen, then adjust the starting position for the next mat(s) on the same sheet. same thing, but cut one mat design at a time instead of the lot in a batch

I presume you can save the pool, much as we would save a "path" ? to cut various sizes instead of all one size as in "tiling". eg 5 16x12 out of a sheet but cutting 3 portrait and two above it landscape? That must be very handy, and economical on the amount of board used!

does it allow you to cut your small mats from (what will be) the dropout of later and larger ones?

osgood · Post by **osgood** » Thu 20 Dec, 2007 10:49 pm

Kev,

Yes, the pools can be saved and re used later.
I just did one this morning where I had to cut two mats from an offcut and pool mode was the easiest solution.

Grahame Case · Post by **Grahame Case** » Fri 21 Dec, 2007 4:39 pm

just been measuring up for the Gunnar 601 - it is going to be a bit of a squeeze to fit it in, as it is it is taking up floor space out front,

can anyone tell me how much the 601 can tilt by? is it a lot?

Spit · Post by **Spit** » Fri 21 Dec, 2007 5:33 pm

The F1 can be wall mounted, I suspect the 601 can too. However they don't recommend doing that, I suppose that is to do with dropouts falling and clogging things up.

I have my F1 at an angle for the same reasons as yourself, it is simply a matter of reversing the two-section legs. It saves about 6-10 inches of floorspace.

Actually, looking at the specs, it seems that "Cutting table angle can be set ergonomically (tilted horizontally, 8° or 16°)"

http://www.gunnar-europe.com/index.php?id=51

osgood · Post by **osgood** » Fri 21 Dec, 2007 7:28 pm

Grahame Case wrote:just been measuring up for the Gunnar 601 - it is going to be a bit of a squeeze to fit it in, as it is it is taking up floor space out front,

Grahame,
You are making me very envious. The 601 is an awesome machine that has some features that make my old Rapido seem almost useless. Its much faster and has a vertical head as well as an angled head.

Jared Davis CPF, GCF · Fri 21 Dec, 2007 7:47 pm

Hi guys,

Maybe I can help answer a few questions? -

Regarding the Gunnar software -

Pooling - To answer Kev's question - The Pool Mode Osgood was referring to is also sometimes called "nesting", which means cutting a mount, inside a mount, inside a mount, etc, etc. The Gunnar SPT32 software makes the calculation of this type of layout simple & instant, at the click of a button - completely automatic - taking away all the thinking, and also eliminates the "put that bit aside so we can cut another one out of that" process ... It is surprising how many custom framers use this for converting excess, odd sized, offcuts into saleable ready-cut mats. It also works with multiple opening mats and double mats as well.

Regarding Machine Angles - the Gunnar 601 cannot be wall mounted like the Gunnar F1, but it can be set at an incline of 8 degrees or 16 degrees. However I would recommend working with it set horizontal if possible, as this is the only true way you can confidentially "turn your back" on the machine while it is cutting and remain productive, without worrying about internal fallouts slipping and getting in the way of subsequent cuts (especially for multiple openings).

Software Brochure - I think I know the brochure you are reading on the Gunnar software, which was printed about 4-5 years ago and the images don't really do the current software much credit. However, the Gunnar software is a straight-forward, logical interface which is intuitive and user-friendly. It is also quite advanced as well. It is always best to see software demonstrated first-hand so you can consider and compare "how it thinks".

Regarding software, may I add another suggestion? In comparing CMC's, keep in mind that with most CMC's out there, you can get free future software upgrades, which only get better and better as time goes on.... but there are no such thing as free "hardware/mechanical" upgrades, so if there is something "not quite perfect" about a particular CMC's mechanical performance, you will be stuck with working around it forever.

In most cases, people will assume that an investment like this would last them at least 5-10 years, if not more - so you really want to be placing some emphasis on other considerations as well, such as precision / accuracy, quality, mechanical performance & durability, service & support, etc.... as unlike software, these things don't get better over time for "free"! I can guarantee you that the software you use on a CMC today will NOT be the same as you will be using in 5 years time, and will only improve and get better.... but the machine itself won't change at all.

Another tip - always get test mats cut, and compare the difference. Inspect the cut quality and the machine performance and usability. Watch the process for cutting them and be critical - and ask yourself, "is this what I would expect for the price I am paying?". Not all CMC's are created equal, and at the end of the day, "you get what you pay for". Buying "the cheapest" may be a policy you can "get away with" when buying a tin of coffee at the supermarket, because if you don't like it, you can always afford to buy another one next week - but you can't afford to do this with a CMC?

As my dad once taught me: "When you buy the best, you buy it once..."

Happy Christmas!

Jared

Lemon_Drop · Post by **Lemon_Drop** » Fri 21 Dec, 2007 7:59 pm

I like Ormond can't really fault the Gunnar software. Its easy to use, even if you never turned on a computer before, and is updated around twice a year.
Pool mode is another bonus, even if you dont use it that often.

Just a comment to Grahame,
If you intend spending, that kind of money on a cmc, which is going to cost more than anything you have bought framing wise I would not judge the software by looking at pictures on a monitor in the Gunnar Leaflets, and then say its a bit basic.
I know some people will say that I'm being a bit sarcastic in this post, but I hope im not coming across that way.

Grahame ask Sarah at Gunnar for a copy of the software, it will work without the machine an at least give you an idea of what it can do before you get the 601.

I think Spit is right when he says about wall mounting the F1 with the danger of dropouts falling behind the mount board, but I dont know about the 601, the clamping on both machines are different. But I would not go beyond the specs form Gunnar, someone put them in there for a reason.

Spit · Post by **Spit** » Fri 21 Dec, 2007 8:49 pm

The reason I say the software is a bit 'retro' is that you can't do drag 'n' drop shapes or points, which is a feature that I'd find really useful - having to go to corel draw to do anything out of the ordinary is a PITA. Also, it'll do things you don't expect, like if you put in the dimensions for a rectangle say, then click on the screen, the shape vanishes, along with the dimensions you've just entered. It shouldn't do that under any circumstances. The undo generally doesn't undo, either.

For most things it's great - but it needs a little more quality & usability in it. A linux version would be nice too

On the hardware side, I'm as happy as one could be - the 90° head of the 601 and the embossing tool are the only things I could wish for.

Lemon_Drop · Post by **Lemon_Drop** » Fri 21 Dec, 2007 9:35 pm

Hi Spit,
I got a copy of SPT32, on this laptop and tried it. I entered the measurments of a rectangle with outside cut.
If you click on the screen it will vanish, you have to hit enter and then it will stay on the screen, then you can move on and add another figure or open intelli layer etc,

When you enter a rectangle, its only the start, you have to tell it what to do, if you click on cut, the shape will stay on the screen and the cmc will cut it, or hit the enter button on the keyboard.
I never had a problem with the redo / undo since I started using the software.
I downloaded Version 6.21 a few days ago, maybe that will solve your problem with the undo.

Spit · Post by **Spit** » Fri 21 Dec, 2007 9:51 pm

Lemon_Drop wrote:Hi Spit,
I got a copy of SPT32, on this laptop and tried it. I entered the measurments of a rectangle with outside cut.
If you click on the screen it will vanish, you have to hit enter

That's what I mean - it shouldn't just vanish, even if you haven't hit enter. It should either ignore the mouse click, or count the mouse click as an enter key to make the shape stick.

Most of my problem is that as an ex IT guy, I'm used to programs behaving in a certain way. This would be regarded as bad behaviour from a program, as there is no logical reason for it to do it.

w00dward · Post by **w00dward** » Fri 21 Dec, 2007 10:03 pm

But, as an ex-IT guy (lucky git!) you should know that the problem isn't with the software. I'm afraid this is going to be classed as a PEBCAK or a PICNIC. As I tell all of my users, the computer is always right.

Spit · Post by **Spit** » Fri 21 Dec, 2007 10:07 pm

I'd just like to point out these are very minor gripes, but Gunnar should do something about them, especially the ability to 'draw' shapes within the program, rather than rely almost wholly on Corel - and no, I don't want to tap in co-ordinates, that is really retro.....

Spit · Post by **Spit** » Fri 21 Dec, 2007 10:08 pm

w00dward wrote:But, as an ex-IT guy (lucky git!) you should know that the problem isn't with the software. I'm afraid this is going to be classed as a PEBCAK or a PICNIC. As I tell all of my users, the computer is always right.

At least it isn't an ID-10-T error.