Computer mount cutters

johns · Post by **johns** » Tue 30 Aug, 2005 10:02 am

I am looking at getting a computer mount cutter to do the normal mounts and the more exoctic. Can anybody give me any pointers and which the best machine is.

Cheers Johns

Framing Norah · Post by **Framing Norah** » Tue 30 Aug, 2005 10:56 am

Hi Johns,

Welcome to the forum.

The quality of CMC's are such that I have never seen a framer bad mouth their own machine.

Have a look in this category "CMC's .... Which One" where the topic has been recently discussed.

Perhaps the new owners will have some further input to contribute to the debate (?).

Nigel Tucker · Post by **Nigel Tucker** » Fri 09 Sep, 2005 2:03 pm

Hello Johns, I can help you here. I own a Wizard mat cutter & would have no other machine. Obviously a great deal of consideration has to go into this costly purchase, so I travelled the country and went to all the shows for demonstrations, and contacted owners of the different machines for feedback. Without doubt, when taking the whole package into account there was no doubt in my mind that Wizard Int were the best and in the 3 years of owning my machine I have been absolutley delighted with it. Added to this, the back up of Framers Corner and Wizard Int has been superb and we have an excellent working relationship. Hope this is of use to you, regards Nigel.

Post by **John** » Fri 09 Sep, 2005 2:41 pm

Hi Nigel,

Welcome to the forum and thank you for taking the trouble of informing me of the registering problem.

In light of what Norah said, did you find that Wizard owners were more enthusiastic about their machines, or were the owners of all CMC's equally enthusiastic?

I found the Wizard to be, er, wizard. But do owners of other brands think their machines are wizard also?

Nigel Tucker · Post by **Nigel Tucker** » Fri 09 Sep, 2005 2:46 pm

Hi John, thanks for you help this morning, in answer to you question, yes thay were all enthusiastic but I dont think the realised the overall package that the wizardhs to offer. Lets hope the public wake up soon and start spending again. Regards Nigel

Framing Norah · Post by **Framing Norah** » Fri 09 Sep, 2005 4:02 pm

Hi Nigel,

Nice to see an enthusiastic new member to the forum.

I seem to remember reading somewhere that the cutting angle of the bevel is not the same for all machines. Can someone please verify if this is true, and also explain why this might be significant.

Apropos of nothing at all, Google has a great little plug-in (for Windows/IE) that sits on the browser toolbar and will spell-check posts before they are submitted. It is totally free, and can be downloaded from http://toolbar.google.com/?promo=mor-tb-en

Merlin · Post by **Merlin** » Fri 09 Sep, 2005 7:07 pm

Hi Nigel
I am sure that whatever CMC that one purchases, then it will be the 'bees knees'. Some people like Ford some like Volvos.
As posted elsewhere on this Forum, I too searched and travelled gathering information on CMC's. It came down to two choices. Wizard and Valiani MatPro120. They are both good. It came down to the price difference between the two in the end ..... some £4500 in favour of the Valiani.
I am a beginner having only owned it for some 6 weeks now, yet already it is proving its worth, and like any computerised system. It is only as good as the operator feeding it.

It would be interesting to hear what made you decide on the Wizard when comparing it with other machines.

Nigel Tucker · Post by **Nigel Tucker** » Tue 13 Sep, 2005 8:45 am

In answer to your question Nora the Valiani cuts at a more acute angle, allowing tighter curves but not as nice a bevel. John, it was not any specific thing that swayed me to wizard, but the overall package. Having had my wizard for 3 years now I am still of the same opnion, and God forbid anything happened to it, I would have another one without hesitation, regards, Nigel

Merlin · Post by **Merlin** » Tue 13 Sep, 2005 3:37 pm

The Valiani cuts at an angle of 42.5 degrees. Yes, it does cut tighter and better curves. Perfect circles down to 1/4 inch diameter.

I believe (and stand to be corrected) the Wizard cuts at an angle of 45 degrees.

Thankyou Nigel for your reply.

Framing Norah · Post by **Framing Norah** » Tue 13 Sep, 2005 7:23 pm

A difference of 2.5 degrees doesn't seem like a lot.

Could mounts cut by the two machines actually be told apart? Perhaps the difference in angle might be more obvious on a thicker mount.

Merlin · Post by **Merlin** » Tue 13 Sep, 2005 7:33 pm

Norah. I totally agree, not a lot in it..
When looking at CMC's at the NEC last Feb, I had an offcut (bevelled) from 3 of the display machines. Gunnar. Wizard and Valiani.

I really could not tell the difference when they were placed side by side on a table. Admittedly they were 1400 micron boards. The standard(ish) board thickness.

I am 95% sure that the 'normal' customer would not be able to tell either.

As for thicker mounts and being able to tell the difference. Sorry cannot answer that one. Maybe somebody else can.

kev@frames · Post by **kev@frames** » Mon 09 Jan, 2006 11:24 pm

I agree with everyone. Thats a first.
and Hi everyone, first post.

I have a Wizard. can't fault it, no major niggles. good software.
I looked at a few, even managed to borrow a couple (and that's a mission, considering where we are located) and went for the Wizard purely because Charnwood/Framers Corner are a family firm, with service to match, and we'd dealt with them many times over the years for other bits and pieces.

I'd have no hesitation in recommending a Wizard as a good all round machine thats pretty idiot proof.

JonC · Post by **JonC** » Thu 02 Mar, 2006 5:45 pm

Hi all am considering a Wizard Mount Cutter.from Framers Corner.
I am a small bespoke framing business.
The emphasis on small
HAve spoken to one or two one man bands but still need to consider the £SD ]
is it worth the investment for a small framer?What would you consider the min amount of frames a week to make it viable.
john

Merlin · Post by **Merlin** » Thu 02 Mar, 2006 6:06 pm

Hi John
I Will probably rock the boat here. Small you say. Look at the MatPro 120.
It will take the Standard size Mount board. Not the Jumbo. But then since getting the Valiani, I have not been asked to cut a Jumbo board.

With the new software update, I will stand by my decision to go for the MatPro. It was also some £3k + cheaper.
I also know Wizard owners who will stick by their decision.

Nice to have maybe, but do you really need all those 'bells and whistles' that comes with the Wizard software. 85% of our mounts are the standard rectangle, about 10% are ovals/circles and 5% are bespoke shapes. No major problem in designing them either. Sorry, it sounds as though I am knocking Wizard software. I am not and no doubt I will be corrected here, but you will be paying for the software designs (lots of them) that you will never use.

Wizard comes with its own PC and compressor as standard. I did not want that. As I build my own PC's I did not want another one and I got the Comp at trade price. Those combined was a significant saving.

Really the only advice I can give is find CMC owners near to you and go and spend a few hours with each machine.

markw · Post by **markw** » Thu 02 Mar, 2006 6:16 pm

Like Merlin I am a relativly new CMC owner - Valiani. Merlin put the case for Valiani and like him I am very happy with the machine I have. Wizard would have been my other choice - I think Wizard have an incredible vision of how the software relates to the CMC - Front of shop design Integrated Framer etc. Valiani seem to have the edge on cutting thicker boards and multimounts - New software release has improved circle cutting to near perfect as well as adding a few new features such as stop end v grooves.

John (Merlin) and I have worked hard trying to improve Valiani's customer care - I think we are getting somewhere but they will have to try very hard to beat Wizards UK team who seem to be very enthusiastic - but looking at the Grumble - and the fact that wizard look at this forum indicates to me that as a company(USA) they have a enthusiastic approach to the business.

I havent made the decision easier - The Valiani is excellent - and so is the wizard - but £4000+ can be fairly persuasive.

printmaker · Post by **printmaker** » Fri 03 Mar, 2006 3:35 pm

Nigel Tucker wrote:... the Valiani cuts at a more acute angle, allowing tighter curves but not as nice a bevel. ...

Hello from Canada.

The bevel angle is truly a matter of personal preference. Having framed for about a quarter century prior, the fatter bevels cut by most CMC's look (to us) very commercial, especially on smaller pieces...

The Valiani, which we've now owned for about 3 years, cuts at an angle similar to our traditional C+H and Fletcher straight-line mat cutters. The bevel angle, needless to say, was not a MAJOR deciding factor. For us, however, it was a happy bonus.

p.s. If we were to purchase another machine today, it would most likely be another Valiani, and probably the exact model we now have (even tho' there are cheaper models available). Wizard, for us, would not be considered (at all); having said that, I've only heard of a few Wizard owners who regret their decisions; most are very happy.

JonC · Post by **JonC** » Fri 03 Mar, 2006 6:58 pm

Thanks for the replies however what I realy needed was your views on the minimum amount of framing needed to warrant a CMC
John

markw · Post by **markw** » Fri 03 Mar, 2006 7:06 pm

I am looking at getting a computer mount cutter to do the normal mounts and the more exoctic. Can anybody give me any pointers and which the best machine is.

How does your original question equate to your last comment????

Enough to be able to afford it would be the simple answer!

WizSteve · Post by **WizSteve** » Sun 05 Mar, 2006 10:50 pm

Nice to have maybe, but do you really need all those 'bells and whistles' that comes with the Wizard software. 85% of our mounts are the standard rectangle, about 10% are ovals/circles and 5% are bespoke shapes. No major problem in designing them either. Sorry, it sounds as though I am knocking Wizard software. I am not and no doubt I will be corrected here, but you will be paying for the software designs (lots of them) that you will never use.

I feel that I should mention that there's more to "bells and whistles" than just fancy shapes. The Wizard software comes with many powerful yet simple design tools to make complex layouts a snap while making single opening designs as quick as possible (3 numbers, 2 clicks and you're cutting). It's also about ease of use, reliability, and support.

Post by **John** » Mon 06 Mar, 2006 12:52 pm

All of the templates may not be to everybody's taste, but a good comprehensive library has got to be a good thing.

Well written software like Wizard's superb Mat Designer keeps its complexity well hidden so as not to interfere with everyday use, but is always at the ready to accomplish more complex tasks.

It does no harm to have a few "bells and whistles" on tap. After all you never know when a campanologist will walk into the shop.

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