Techincal support and sensible chanels for support

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stcstc

Techincal support and sensible chanels for support

Post by stcstc »

As discussed in another thread it was thought best that a new thread was started to discuss the merits of various types of technical support

so i thought i would start it, and give some of my opinions for support and where to get it etc


1. if its a specific bit of kit, where special support is required, like in the other thread, where there are soooo many ways to do things and sooooo many ways to feck it up

the options are:

a. ring or talk to the supplier.
b. ask users of the same kit
c. ask on open forums for help

the benefits of these are:
a: specific direct support, generally from specialist support staff, generally who are trained to diagnose issues in a methodical manner
b. generally experienced users might of come across same issues etc, sometimes though users will think they know and actually are no more informed that the questioner
c. forums are great for getting resposnses from a wide userbase, generally things get lost in translation though (in my opinion) where a set procedure needs to happen made of small multiple steps, one step missing can create waaaay more issues.


Now

forums are a fantastic resource, generally provided for free by someone or a company, great for sharing tips and tricks, how to's etc. great for generating ideas of how to approach something creativley etc. because of the lack of body language and interpretation of wording it can cause issues. support as in very technical fault finding support can be an issue

eperienced users can be a good resource of knowledge and can be great members of forums for example. i learned for example how to move the blades on my morso from this forum for example

supplier support - well it can be exceptional, it can also be really rubbish, I personally have expperienced both within this industry.

one other point to make about where to gain support from, using the example in the other thread about an issue with a cmc. If it was me, my business would suffer, ie loose money if the machine isnt working, so i want it fixed ASAP not having to wait for responses etc

even this post on a forum wont give my opinion in full or possibly give it direct enough to not be mis intepreted.



anyway, lets hear other peoples opinions on where support comes from etc
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Re: Techincal support and sensible chanels for support

Post by misterdiy »

I agree with you Steve, in that if a piece of machinery or computer or printer is down it must be fixed fast otherwise we are losing money. An instance this week. We have a Minigraf multi-channel which stopped sending pins through to the moulding on Friday lunchtime. Quick look myself to see if it was anything simple like a jammed pin or broken belt which it wasn't. So pick up the phone and get an expert in to sort it out.

He went through a number of issues on the phone which did not bring an answer, but a likely problem for which he has a spare part. he visits on Monday so hopefully will be up and running same day. if I had used the forum I am sure I would have got a pile of very useful advice wich would have taken a couple of days to probably get to where I am now. Then I would have to have phoned the expert.

If the expert can't fix it then I am in trouble as I have close to a 100 frames to pin early next week for despatch that week. many I can get an extension in time, but there are a couple of jobs that are time critical.

My next line of defence would be to contact Jack at Lion, who are only 30 minutes away from me and hope they could pin the critical frames and maybe offer support for the Minigraf, but hopefully it won't come to that.

We carry out a "risk assessment" of vulnerable points and there are two pinch points. One is the underpinner. the second is either Mrs D or myself. Not sure how to get round them :shock:
stcstc

Re: Techincal support and sensible chanels for support

Post by stcstc »

misterdiy wrote:the second is either Mrs D or myself. Not sure how to get round them :shock:

your just not both allowed to be ill at once :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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Re: Techincal support and sensible chanels for support

Post by Roboframer »

stcstc wrote:a. ring or talk to the supplier.
b. ask users of the same kit
c. ask on open forums for help
All 3 could be combined if the supplier in (a) and the users in (b) were members of (c) and then the problem posed and the suggestions to solve it are there for others to learn from, whether the problem was solved on (c) or not.

You could own something that has product support; you may have even paid for that product support, but it goes tits-up on (e.g.) Easter Thursday at 6 pm and you're buggered until the Tuesday because the office is shut. Someone on (c) could get you out of a nightmare situation, even if just to tide you over.

VIVA LA FORUM!

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stcstc

Re: Techincal support and sensible chanels for support

Post by stcstc »

yep i agree for certain types of issues and equipment the forum is a very valid place for advice and help

Notice not the word support, support is given by trained support staff who are trained to diagnose and fix problems, it a safe, timely, effecient manner

as for out of hrs support i guess it depends on the machine, and money spent both on it and the support

I can say with my gunnar for example, i have had support at 9pm on a friday night when it went tits up with a big rush order needing to be finished on the monday morning

But i guess we are just lucky in the UK and ireland having sarah and david supporting gunnar machines. Mind wouldnt suprise me if merlin with val would do something similar
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Re: Techincal support and sensible chanels for support

Post by IFGL »

Merlin gave me his card and stated support is 24 - 7, but also said keep it to reasonable times if possible.
stcstc

Re: Techincal support and sensible chanels for support

Post by stcstc »

actually its not just about support of something like a cmc that we should be discussing

a good example of where a forum works well is say photoshop

i have an image, post it on a forum, asking how to recreate that style

there will be a huge response, some rubbish, some very good on how to do it


cmc's are such a small niche market, there are not many expert users out there, and they are not all members of a forum, and not all capable of communicating their knowledge in writing.

I know i can explain things waaay easier on the phone than writing an email with a customer for example
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Re: Techincal support and sensible chanels for support

Post by AllFramed »

When purchasing expensive and/or business critical machinery or software, support should be included in your annual expense budget as you would rent, insurance etc.

In the commercial IT industry it was not unusual to charge 25-30% of the purchase price per anum for support. The businesses were dependent and the suppliers had to make a living, ie it ensured that specialist suppliers to a market were still around to offer support for their products.

Forums have the equivalent in user groups, where people could discuss ways of doing things and collectively present issues and problems. I see there being a deal of overlap between the two - a user group could help resolve problems but was never the same as paid support.
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Re: Techincal support and sensible chanels for support

Post by JohnMcafee »

It is obvious, and I would have thought shouldn’t really have to be said, that the forum has no role to play when the solution to a technical problem requires the physical presence of an engineer or in the situation where the supplier only provides support to those who have paid for it.

But in cases where a problem’s resolution of is within the capabilities of a reasonably intelligent user (as is often the case), and can be conveyed by words and/or pictures, then why not use the forum?
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stcstc

Re: Techincal support and sensible chanels for support

Post by stcstc »

yes john

there is no reason not to use a forum. BUT like i said not for SUPPORT, but advice etc

like i said above certain kinds of fault / problems are easy or simple to work out like you say on a forum

BUT

support, and not just where it need the physical presence of the support staff is something for dedicated support chanels i think anyway

even small errors in diagnosis can cause bigger issues so it safer for business critical systems to be done through proper systems
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Re: Techincal support and sensible chanels for support

Post by JohnMcafee »

Yes stcstc, I couldn't agree more.

But like I said, in cases where a problem’s resolution of is within the capabilities of a reasonably intelligent user (as is often the case), and can be conveyed by words and/or pictures, then why not use the forum?
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Re: Techincal support and sensible chanels for support

Post by stcstc »

yes john

deff

with certain bits of kit though it can be dangerous if users think they know what they are doing, if you know what i mean :-))

take for example, if you had an issue with your printer, i guess most issues if you asked on the forum someone like me could give you help, but the slightest little error from me or lose in translation, would result in not fix. and when your trying to get something done for a deadline, who would you contact first, the forum or your supplier?
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Re: Techincal support and sensible chanels for support

Post by IFGL »

or in the case of the cmc thread, I could have given all my settings for the blue head, this could have resulted in damage to the bed of the machine, about £3k
hence me just asking if he was using the correct blades and not offering any other fix despite the blue head being our default head.
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Re: Techincal support and sensible chanels for support

Post by Merlin »

We all seem to be agreeing that the forum should be used for advice and not for support where an SME is required.
JohnMcafee wrote:But like I said, in cases where a problem’s resolution of is within the capabilities of a reasonably intelligent user (as is often the case), and can be conveyed by words and/or pictures, then why not use the forum?
That is exactly what I did regarding the initial question on the other thread.
IGFL wrote: I could have given all my settings for the blue head, this could have resulted in damage to the bed of the machine, about £3k
Exactly my point. You too have a different machine and running a different Software version. Hence a different configuration that Would have caused damage.

There is a big difference between framing related products where down time is not a problem and Specialised equipment where down time is critical.

I certainly would not class my CMC as a gadget either.
Dictionary Definition: gadget
n
1. a small mechanical device or appliance
2. any object that is interesting for its ingenuity or novelty rather than for its practical use
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Re: Techincal support and sensible chanels for support

Post by JohnMcafee »

Wow Merlin how punctilious of you, have you become Captain English, monotoring the forum for correct use of language. :)

Have a look at a couple of episodes of The Gadget Show sometime, you'll be amazed at what they, like me, consider to be gadgets.

I'll always refer to a CMC as a big old gadget, I'm really not sure why that would bother anybody.
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stcstc

Re: Techincal support and sensible chanels for support

Post by stcstc »

Oi you two, can we have a proper discussion about the thread subjest, not and overflow from other threads

it is a serious subject, that dosent need diluting with a pissing contest

there are some issues around gaining support from a forum that newer members for example could get very badly lead down the wrong path etc, so come on keep it on track
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Re: Techincal support and sensible chanels for support

Post by JohnMcafee »

Ho no, stcstc :)

Sound advice maybe, but I would have thought that a better way to bring the thread back on line would be to offer up a post that was on topic rather than making a fuss about some minor side issue that had obviously already run its course.

The important thing is that we all appear to agree that, semantics aside, the forum is a great place for suppliers to support the various devices and contraptions that aid us in our framing endeavours.
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Re: Techincal support and sensible chanels for support

Post by stcstc »

actually i agree the forum is a great place for ADVICE from

suppliers and users

I dont agree its a great place for certain kinds of technical support no. waaaaay to easy (as i have already said) for things to get lost in translation

I mean, you and i had techincal support just yesterday, i didnt attempt to do it on the forum, and as you know its wasnt something that would of been simply resolved on the forum
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Re: Techincal support and sensible chanels for support

Post by JohnMcafee »

As it happens, Steve, yesterday’s technical support session (on Skype) exactly illustrates the point I have been trying to make. While certainly it would have been a lot more cumbersome to have conducted it entirely on the forum, I think it would have been well worthwhile, as we would then have an open record that might be an aid to others with a similar problem.

For that reason, and only with your permission, I’d like to place a transcription of our (protracted) conversation in the EstLite section, edited to remove any irrelevant chit-chat or gossip, of course. :)
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Re: Techincal support and sensible chanels for support

Post by stcstc »

ok, i have no probs with you publishing it

although as everyones networks are different and everyones level of knowledge are different I dont see how someone would have all of the same elements

actually also after the fact its kinda easier to decide oh yes thats the way to do it on the forum!!

actually just as an after thought, i suggest you put it up as a seperate thread again, just so not to dilute this discussion
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