Sorry, Another Medals Query

Get help and framing advice from the framing community
User avatar
StevenG
Posts: 1147
Joined: Thu 31 Jan, 2013 8:01 am
Location: Tyrone, N.Ireland
Organisation: Featurepiece Frames
Interests: Movies, always trying to get things better, Wasting money on things I don't need, reading stuff on here, eating sandwiches & being thankful for the small things
Contact:

Sorry, Another Medals Query

Post by StevenG »

Hi, so I've got 9 medals to frame, they look like replicas if I'm honest and it's only for presentation purposes, some don't have a ribbon either. Would it be alright if I were to just secure them onto the mount with something like silicon. The customer wants this as cheap as possible (there's a surprise too)

Cheers guys

p.s. I can upload some pics if that'll help matters
A3DFramer
Posts: 200
Joined: Fri 18 May, 2012 6:51 pm
Location: Shropshire
Organisation: Collectors Cases
Interests: Virtual 3D Model making, Digital Graphics.
Location: Shropshire

Re: Sorry, Another Medals Query

Post by A3DFramer »

Having spent many years making commercially priced displays for interior decorators, buying artifacts from the second hand trade, I became familiar with the dilemma of a quick fix in relation to the value of an object that might change in the future. I know that many of my competitors were less troubled by the ethics of this dilemma, because I had the task of dismantling some of their work.

The thought that a framer in the future might might castigate my work, does not trouble me, there are plenty of small minds that will use examples of other peoples work to put their own worth forward. The merit of any job lies in the integrity between vendor and purchaser, flagrant vandalism is a choice that can be avoided.

A technique comes to mind, using BGPT or licky-sticky tape that creates a minimally invasive barrier and is compatible with many surfaces and glues, hot melt glue guns are an effective and quick method of fixing. A hair drier at hand speeds up the process of putting a BGPT patch on the back of an artefact.

Silicone takes a lot longer to cure so why use it?
Roboframer

Re: Sorry, Another Medals Query

Post by Roboframer »

There was a recent article in the Fine art Trade Guild's magazine 'Art Business Today' by a very well known/respected framer - a very very valuable set of Olympic medals - all held with hot melt glue which was claimed to be uninvasive and reversible.

Give the customer the options - personally I charge a fee for 'mounting' objects and it pretty much disregards the method used.
Uncle Sumo
Posts: 184
Joined: Sun 24 Feb, 2008 8:46 pm
Location: Wirral

Re: Sorry, Another Medals Query

Post by Uncle Sumo »

It might be quickest to add a ribbon to each.
Cut a slot in the mountboard, feed through each ribbon and
hold each in place with piece of card. Slot n slide method.
Quick and reversible.
Sean
User avatar
StevenG
Posts: 1147
Joined: Thu 31 Jan, 2013 8:01 am
Location: Tyrone, N.Ireland
Organisation: Featurepiece Frames
Interests: Movies, always trying to get things better, Wasting money on things I don't need, reading stuff on here, eating sandwiches & being thankful for the small things
Contact:

Re: Sorry, Another Medals Query

Post by StevenG »

Nice idea - how do I stop the medals from 'dangling'?
Roboframer

Re: Sorry, Another Medals Query

Post by Roboframer »

Good question, you'd still have the same problem! Plus what sort of ribbon, just 'ribbon' or the correct ribbon per medal?

It's either fasten in place or stick in place (or leave to dangle from the ribbons), you'll probably want to be charging more for fastening. Explain the pros and cons of each to the customer - i.e. sticking will be totally invisible and cheaper but may possibly damage the metal and also, in time may fail*. Fastening will be visible (even if you have to look really hard), will cost more but is far less likely to fail.

*in 3 ways, the adhesive itself can fail (by drying out etc) and so can the surface of the object and the mounting surface.
Roboframer

Re: Sorry, Another Medals Query

Post by Roboframer »

A3DFramer wrote: there are plenty of small minds that will use examples of other peoples work to put their own worth forward
As long as there's no public naming and shaming and assuming a method that has not stood the test of time and/or has caused damage is the example ...... and maybe assuming that method and/or similar are still possible options today .............. :?:
User avatar
IFGL
Posts: 3087
Joined: Sun 06 May, 2012 5:27 pm
Location: Sheffield UK
Organisation: Inframe Gallery Ltd
Interests: Films ,music and art, my wife and kids are pretty cool too.
Location: Sheffield
Contact:

Re: Sorry, Another Medals Query

Post by IFGL »

we usually use a single strand of wire around the top of the medal of the same colour as the medal, we have tried a very thin mylar strap around the same bit but have found this to be more visible and because you have to fix the mylar with ds tape or similar, have decided this will eventually fail, twisted wire does not rely on adhesive and generally fit's in better with the look and feel of most medals.
easypopsgcf
Posts: 365
Joined: Fri 29 Oct, 2010 11:59 pm
Location: Glasgow
Organisation: home
Interests: cars

Re: Sorry, Another Medals Query

Post by easypopsgcf »

You could always sink them into foamboard covered in a nice velvet or similar material.........glass over the top holds them in place, zero fixings required :D
Roboframer

Re: Sorry, Another Medals Query

Post by Roboframer »

If you fix mylar straps (which you can see through so colour is not an issue, and you can cut as thin as you like) correctly, they pass through the mounting board on to DS tape, but they are long enough to fold back over ANOTHER strip of DS tape over that and then you apply a piece of self-adhesive tape over all that and it's all burnished on and is going absolutely nowhere!

Twisted wire causes bulk too, mylar straps are flat.

Sinking into the mounting board loses the 3 dimensional effect and you still have any ribbons and bars to think about when considering using glass to hold things, which could have its own issues anyway, condensation, abrasion etc.

Like I said, pros and cons, stick or fasten .... to keep the 3-D effect - and the glass spaced away.
User avatar
IFGL
Posts: 3087
Joined: Sun 06 May, 2012 5:27 pm
Location: Sheffield UK
Organisation: Inframe Gallery Ltd
Interests: Films ,music and art, my wife and kids are pretty cool too.
Location: Sheffield
Contact:

Re: Sorry, Another Medals Query

Post by IFGL »

thats the way we do it as per the pdf doc we have, the 5 layers has its own bulk and at some point will dry out as all ds and self adhesive tape dose, the fact its clear has no baring because of the horrible way it catches the light, yes at certain angles it's invisible, but at others it is very apparent, I just used it for holding in a pipe, although the customer loved it, I hated it.
User avatar
IFGL
Posts: 3087
Joined: Sun 06 May, 2012 5:27 pm
Location: Sheffield UK
Organisation: Inframe Gallery Ltd
Interests: Films ,music and art, my wife and kids are pretty cool too.
Location: Sheffield
Contact:

Re: Sorry, Another Medals Query

Post by IFGL »

I think easypops is just talking about sinking just a small part of the sole into the foam board and using the glass to stop it falling out, which I might try next time.
Roboframer

Re: Sorry, Another Medals Query

Post by Roboframer »

There's DS tape and there's DS tape, I use 3m 889 which isn't available in UK, it's acrylic adhesive which (claims) strengthens over time on a polyester carrier and is much thinner than normal DS tape. Also shiny straps over something that is already shiny .....?

Also a case of how you use it, it's very versatile and can be cut to any shape, with medals you could do a 'spider' that covers the whole face - I do this with coins and plenty of other things - you'd have absolutely no clue unless you knew how it was done - I regularly do the 'Melinex challenge' on customers with a couple of things, coins, medals, a big shell - to me it sticks out a mile, but I did it, to them, well, they think it must be stuck down and even when I point out and describe the method, they sometimes fail to see it.

Each to their own anyway - no problem with wire here if and when, ditto for sinking - not sure about against glass though, no, I am sure - wouldn't do it.
User avatar
IFGL
Posts: 3087
Joined: Sun 06 May, 2012 5:27 pm
Location: Sheffield UK
Organisation: Inframe Gallery Ltd
Interests: Films ,music and art, my wife and kids are pretty cool too.
Location: Sheffield
Contact:

Re: Sorry, Another Medals Query

Post by IFGL »

I have been using tapestry tape which sticks like sh1t but, it always niggles about drying out, where do you purchase your ds tape, I would be happier with that stuff, I have used the spider leg type fixing too, customer's love it, I think the problem is more mine.
easypopsgcf
Posts: 365
Joined: Fri 29 Oct, 2010 11:59 pm
Location: Glasgow
Organisation: home
Interests: cars

Re: Sorry, Another Medals Query

Post by easypopsgcf »

Roboframer said " ditto for sinking - not sure about against glass though, no, I am sure - wouldn't do it."

Not sure I would do that either..........I was just giving an alternative.........although I'm fairly sure the glass wouldn't harm the medals.

And i did mean losing the ribbons and fully sinking the medals into foamboard covered in a material not into mountboard
User avatar
IFGL
Posts: 3087
Joined: Sun 06 May, 2012 5:27 pm
Location: Sheffield UK
Organisation: Inframe Gallery Ltd
Interests: Films ,music and art, my wife and kids are pretty cool too.
Location: Sheffield
Contact:

Re: Sorry, Another Medals Query

Post by IFGL »

oops thought the sinking in foam board was about a shoe for some un known reason ( well apart from the whisky I have been drinking).
User avatar
Elite
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed 29 Feb, 2012 9:07 pm
Location: Victoria Australia
Organisation: Elite Medals & Framing
Interests: Military medals & history, Framing (of course),Rifle shooting (F Class competition).
Location: Victoria, Australia
Contact:

Re: Sorry, Another Medals Query

Post by Elite »

The mainstay of our business is medal mounting AND medal framing. Over the years we have mounted countless medals whether they be original or replicas. Be careful using any sort of adhesive especially on suede mats. Over time the adhesive will actually break down the fibre to which the adhesive bonds leading to failure. Original medals we normally tie or fasten in using a couple of methods. Fine acrylic line similar to UV resistant fishing line looped around the neck of the suspender on the medal bar, then passes through two fine holes made in the mat behind the medal. Tie off firmly on the rear of the mat then cover with tape to prevent any loosening. The acrylic line is hardly visible from the front and will last long after I have retired from framing. Replica medals can be adhered in due to the fact they have no real monetary value and are easily replaced. Just remember what I said about the suede mats. Im not too keen on the mylar spider method as it completely covers the face of the medal giving it a 'fake' look however it is an alternative to the acrylic line. Some of the medals we all deal with as framers can be worth a CONSIDERABLE amount of money so I strongly recommend against using adhesive on original medals. Hope that helps.

ps. How's the cricket going ....?? Just because it's been 39 to 40'c for the last four days the poms are having a whinge .. !! Any excuse for you lot I suppose :clap: :D :giggle: :SD

20'c and cloudy
Perth 37'c and DAMN HOT :sun:
Roboframer

Re: Sorry, Another Medals Query

Post by Roboframer »

IFGL wrote: where do you purchase your ds tape,
I got the 3M 889 tape from a framer in the states, I think his supplier is United Manufacturers, but 3M 415 tape has similar properties and is available from Lion and PEL and it's OK by the library of congress! http://www.preservationequipment.com/St ... arent-Tape

Lion only do the 13mm wide version, but that's the one you want and they're cheaper than PEL. http://www.lionpic.co.uk/product/3M-415 ... 990,0.aspx
User avatar
StevenG
Posts: 1147
Joined: Thu 31 Jan, 2013 8:01 am
Location: Tyrone, N.Ireland
Organisation: Featurepiece Frames
Interests: Movies, always trying to get things better, Wasting money on things I don't need, reading stuff on here, eating sandwiches & being thankful for the small things
Contact:

Re: Sorry, Another Medals Query

Post by StevenG »

Thanks guys, appreciate the feedback. As I said earlier they're looking for the cheapest option, I will tell them the pros & cons etc but regardless of how they want it I would still like to give them something reasonable. When people talk about adhesives failing over time - glue gun etc.... can anyone give me an idea if this is a definite and if so are we talking years.

Oh, IFGL - what's the .pdf you have? And congrats on the wee one :D
Roboframer

Re: Sorry, Another Medals Query

Post by Roboframer »

Adhesives failing isn't a definite and if it was you couldn't put a timescale on each type of adhesive on every type of surface.

Medals aren't heavy so a blob of silicone, especially if only used to stop it from moving and not for support (because that's been done with the ribbon maybe) would probably last for ages. Just that if it were fastened it definitely would, plus the chance of any reaction to whatever is in the adhesive with the material the object is made from, is removed, and reversibility, if ever necessary, is simple.

I'll use adhesives, no problem, just not left to my own ends, but usually when I do it'll be something pretty serious like epoxy! Not on medals though, original or not, we have a couple of ways of fastening those and we just do it.
Post Reply