HELP - mounting Linen backed Raiders poster

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Bagpuss
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HELP - mounting Linen backed Raiders poster

Post by Bagpuss »

A customer has brought in my first Linen backed poster, I've never had to frame one, never even seen one, its an original Raiders of the lost Ark poster with about 3cm of backing on show ( see photo ). I've seen in a previous posting where Roboframer suggested mounting strips ? Is this because it's difficult to attach a hinge to the backing ? Has anyone done this differently ? I'll be placing a narrow mount over the top of the poster to keep the glass off the poster.
Any experience of this sort of thing, please share.
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Re: HELP - mounting Linen backed Raiders poster

Post by Steve N »

If it was me, I would have suggested to the customer to have a mount which covered the linen backing, there is no need to show the linen backing.
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Re: HELP - mounting Linen backed Raiders poster

Post by Jamesnkr »

Attach the linen to a piece of mountboard using P90 around the edges. Some in the middle of the side, some in the corners.

Then use foamboard as a spacer in a box frame. You can indeed see the linen, but you want to! It means you can see the entirety of the poster, rather than having the edges hidden under mountboard.

Or use mountboard. Don't forget that when hinging it the linen makes it *much* heavier than any ordinary picture so you will need more hinges than usual, don't forget the bottom and sides of the picture too.
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Re: HELP - mounting Linen backed Raiders poster

Post by prospero »

I'm not sure P-90 would grab onto the linen well enough. As there is 30mm of linen margin
I would be inclined to fix some tabs of fabric to the margins using wet glue. PVA would do it.
Don't let the tabs encroach onto the image area behind. You could then fold the tabs over the edges
of some foamboard and fix them behind.

I'm a bit iffy about the card mount. For one thing it's not going to provide enough spacing. For another it
will be very flimsy and you have to cut up a big sheet just to get a skinny border. Using a painted narrow slip
would make more sense to me. Or use one of the available flat spacers but use it flat rather than on-edge.
Cut so it just covers the edge of the poster and use a thin card 'lifter' strip along the outer edge so that it doesn't
crimp the poster edges. The poster should hang freely on it's fabric tabs. These spacers are typically about 6mm wide
which is a lot more than a single sheet of mb.
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Re: HELP - mounting Linen backed Raiders poster

Post by Jamesnkr »

"Cut so it just covers the edge of the poster"

My preference would be to cut it so that it just *doesn't* cover the edge of the poster. It's been backed so you don't have to cover the edges, allowing it to be sort of 'float mounted' without having to float it if you see what I mean.

(Unless the edges are tatty, as they sometimes are with vintage posters, in which case the mountboard may be your friend to hide them. That said, people often still like to see the real edges even if they're a bit tatty. Posters are ephemera; they were never meant to survive. People like to see that they have "lived" a bit.)

Top tip - and as an aside just for information purposes. Linen backing has somewhat gone out of fashion. Linen is quite acidic and isn't particularly good for posters. Pasting a poster to linen backing is inclined to take all the life out of the poster; it leaves it too flat. The latest fashion is to back with Japanese paper. (With linen backing there is a layer of Japanese paper too between the poster and the linen.) I have been known to get my conservator to remove linen backing from posters.

I must say I always use P90.
Roboframer

Re: HELP - mounting Linen backed Raiders poster

Post by Roboframer »

Here's one I did earlier, a sliver of linen ( I don't think it's actually linen, more like cotton canvas) showing but only because the customer wanted nothing covered on the poster. Nice wide mount, deep wrapped bevel.

I used edge mounting strips; wherever possible we like to use no-adhesive methods and although I realise that this is paper stuck to fabric, I don't like sticking anything to fabric and self adhesive tapes are unsuitable.

I don't like the sound of showing 3 cm of fabric and then a skinny mount - will look awful IMHO and it's a shame because it's a nice thing.
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Re: HELP - mounting Linen backed Raiders poster

Post by IFGL »

looks nice that, I will have to remember that combination!
Jamesnkr

Re: HELP - mounting Linen backed Raiders poster

Post by Jamesnkr »

I realise 3" mounts make more money, but I personally don't generally like posters with huge wide mounts. I tend to prefer them with about an inch of linen (yes, strictly cotton canvas) showing on all sides (or float mounted if not backed), and set back in a box frame. Also has the bonus of taking up less room on a wall - which is certainly a bonus if you're trying to sell pictures.
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Re: HELP - mounting Linen backed Raiders poster

Post by IFGL »

surly the bonus in selling pictures would be for them to look good and that does.
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Re: HELP - mounting Linen backed Raiders poster

Post by Roboframer »

It's OK, not everyone has taste :P

More basic principle really - which is what it is about, not making things larger for a higher price, I wouldn't do that. What you describe sounds about the same balance as what Adam described. Cramped, like dancing in a room with a low ceiling - give it some space, isolate it frtom the rest of the world - and other stuff along the same lines.
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Re: HELP - mounting Linen backed Raiders poster

Post by Bagpuss »

Thanks everyone for your advice, very much appreciated.
Roboframer, I really like what you've done, are you able to cut Jumbo size board on your Gunner/CMC ? My options were limited when the customer brought it in, I can only cut mounts in standard size ( 815 x 1125mm ) so I worked out I could only do a 3.5cm wide mount given the size of the poster, which the customer seemed happy with, unfortunately when I came to cut the mount I realised I couldn't even do that because I need a minimum border of 4.5cm for the Gunnar to cut at all : ( I decided to cut the mount in 2 sections on the Gunnar, I've done this before, not ideal but the join is not that noticeable, I'll finish it tomorrow and post a photo of it, fingers crossed :D

"Linen backed" looks like canvas to me, not what I was expecting...
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Roboframer

Re: HELP - mounting Linen backed Raiders poster

Post by Roboframer »

Yes I can cut jumbo board on my CMC (Valiani) I had (and still have) a 60" Ultimat Gold so I wasn't about to get a CMC that couldn't do stuff I already could manually!
Jamesnkr

Re: HELP - mounting Linen backed Raiders poster

Post by Jamesnkr »

I personally wouldn't have done that poster like that, and this is why.

1. The mount crowds the poster; it's too close to it, and it's adding the third dimension too close to it; it needs to breathe, it's like dancing in a room with a low ceiling. A poster was designed - by a well-paid graphic designer who knew what he was doing - to be pasted flat onto a flat surface. It doesn't want a mount crowding it; that's just not how it was intended to be. I like float mounting (or if it has been backed to linen, just the linen border showing) as it emphasises that it is a poster.

2. The mount is too white for the poster; it shows the browning of the paper and so isn't very kind to the poster visually.

3. The frame is even yet whiter than the mount; this is yet even less kind to the poster.

If it were a modern reproduction that was whiter paper, then great framing; problem is, the frame is too perfect. It's a great frame for a reproduction poster. It's not my choice for an authentic vintage poster.

For me, almost every time, I'll use a black frame as it doesn't show up the browning of the paper like a white moulding does. And it will be a hand-painted frame, again giving a softer feel than a factory moulding, and so better suiting the inevitably less-than-perfect poster; they're. And no mount as it takes away from the posterishness of it. It's all wrong, to my mind, to treat it like a watercolour or the sort of reproduction print you find in pubs and hotels. Somebody spent between 1 and 2k on that poster; for me the frame needs to make it look like a poster, not like any other picture. Finally, a frame that big needs AR glass.

And IFGL, I find the biggest push-back on selling framed posters is "it's too big". People are less likely to buy posters when sold with a mount so I try to avoid putting them on when I can. They're not going to be the main picture over the fireplace in the drawing room. They're going in the downstairs loo or a corridor or a kitchen, so wall space is limited. And that poster is 40x25"; with the frame it's 48x33". That's the size of a large child! The bigger it is, the less of an impulse buy it becomes.
Roboframer

Re: HELP - mounting Linen backed Raiders poster

Post by Roboframer »

There are 4 people here alone (if you include my customer), who disagree with you.

.
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Re: HELP - mounting Linen backed Raiders poster

Post by IFGL »

Lol, James, I had better recall the several hundred prints I have sold in this style in the last coulple of months then, the galleries they have gone to must all be wrong, especially that one in Totness that has just put their third order in this month, the second order has urgent as we have sold out written on it, they must be really really wrong.
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Re: HELP - mounting Linen backed Raiders poster

Post by Graysalchemy »

I have to agree a mount should give breathing space around the artwork otherwise it ends up looking like something out of an local art society show framed by someone who thinks he is a dab hand with a Stanley knife. Nothing to do with making more money it's aesthetics that counts.

As for colour well you know I like hayseed.
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Re: HELP - mounting Linen backed Raiders poster

Post by Bagpuss »

Well that was a heated debate :rock: All good stuff, well here's a photo of the finished product, I actually used Neschen Filmoplast T Cloth Tape ( LION ) to attach to the Linen backing to the foamcore board, as I said, I did have to cut the mount in 2 sections as I can't cut Jumbo board but under glass you can't really notice it, I pointed it out to the customer and he was quite relaxed about it.
Thanks again for your input on this , have a good weekend :clap:
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Re: HELP - mounting Linen backed Raiders poster

Post by Roboframer »

Nice to see you covered the fabric, but now you have, how will anyone ever know it's a poster?? :giggle:

I personally did that poster like that, and this is why.

1. That is what the customer wanted - and that's about it really.

It was however an informed choice, all he stipulated was a white frame and I'm sure many framers would have thought "what a relief, it's quite large" and slapped it against the glass. If I was framing it for myself or for sale in the shop I would do it the same but different IOW same balance, different colours.

However .................!


"I like float mounting (or if it has been backed to linen, just the linen border showing) as it emphasises that it is a poster"

I do not like float mounting unless the item is of little value and/or the paper edge has interest and/or the image/a signature/whatever goes right to the paper edge. This is obviously a poster, floating it would make it no more obvious - well it is effectively floated, the edges are showing. Linen backing is functional and not required to emphasise it's a poster. If something like this came in its original condition (not linen backed) I would mount just over the edge of the paper as normal, unless requested (and they'd have to insist) otherwise.

There is no "right way" to frame anything

"For me, almost every time, I'll use a black frame"

I hate black frames on pretty much anything (and white ones come to that)

"And it will be a hand-painted frame, again giving a softer feel than a factory moulding"

Black paint is black paint and it can be applied by you, me a factory worker (yes, some factory stuff is hand finished) or a robot and it'll still be black paint. Put that close to this and that's the sort of stuff I get in to re-frame as it looks so bad.

"a frame that big needs AR glass"

Something this nice (I think it's nice anyway) not to mention expensive and having a lot spent on it to restore it (there was a LOT more done that sticking it to fabric) needs protection and it has the maximum for glass in Conservation Clear - I quoted for museum and the guy nearly had a scrotum attack. I also quoted for another white frame he liked better- same size and profile but lacquered and slightly dimpled, from Nielsen's "Matrix" range - and that almost gave him a scrotum attack too - this is Simons Econ 9.

I think it looks fine even if it would not be my choice, I have done absolutely nothing to it and given it the highest UV protection possible for (single layer) glass.

Your method, well, no-one seems to agree with it - it's unnecessary (floating, box frame, spacing) ineffective and possibly damaging (Self adhesive tape and plenty of it) offers little UV protection and doesn't look too clever.

Still, it's good to have different opinion, would be a boring old world if we all did things the same way,

Tell you what, next time you get one, or if you have one even, post a pic and we'll have a poll - not just you, anyone and not just a poll here, ask our customers.

.
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