The Framers Forum

Hello all,

I am not going to drop any names because I like to think I have a bit more class than that! I am looking at changing suppliers because currently it would appear it is too difficult to get me a complete order (or without damage).

I am leaning towards Lion but am open to any better suggestions. (especially ones that mean I don't have to pay for samples.)

Trouble is, I am in the middle of nowhere (Scottish Borders) and need reliable delivery options.

I don't know about north of the boarder, but a lot of the suppliers now seem to use Tuffnells, so all my supplies get damaged , unless it's from the few suppliers who use their own vans

We have accounts with a couple of suppliers including Lion

Only last week I placed a min' order it came promptly, very well packed, complete and undamaged.

On one occasion there was a problem (damage caused by carrier) One phone call and problem solved.

They have a very comprehensive range of products, a catalogue second to none and a good/easy web site.

Although I don't expect something for nothing they do have a few free samples. Not having the buying power of some we are happy to pay 50p for a sample chev' from Lion.

If you need to phone them there is a photo of the team in the catalogue so you can see who you are speaking with ( I like that)

Can only speak as you find.

Peter

Steve N wrote: but a lot of the suppliers now seem to use Tuffnells, so all my supplies get damaged

They are the big reason I am not using Lion now.

poliopete wrote:On one occasion there was a problem (damage caused by carrier) One phone call and problem solved.

I like that they actually give the dimensions of their mouldings too. Just makes life so much easier!

I've gone over to centrado who use their own vans, so I get very little damage and can send stuff back easily. wessex are the only other one to have a van delivery - everyone else uses trash it nels !! and it also gives the suppliers (lion are the worst for it) the option of over supplying - you order 6m as you want two sticks and they only have 2.7m sticks so instead of sending 5.4m they send you 8.1m !!

^ I once complained to a supplier about this over-supply of moulding. They justified it by saying "there's nothing worse than getting supplied short", to which my answer was, "well yes, there is - having your profit reduced or wiped out is worse!" On a small job, being supplied with more moulding than you ordered can make a significant difference to the profit margin. It crossed my mind that they might do it to small customers in particular, either to make the order more worthwhile for them, or because larger customers wouldn't put up with it

Sorry don't agree with either of you,I'd rather the supplier send more than I ordered, many the time they have sent a couple of metres more than I ordered, because the lengths are shorter than usual, if they had delivered the exact amount, i would not get the frames out of what they had delivered if the frames are large. plus we are not all perfect , sometime even I mess up when cutting moulding, cut it far too short on the short length or might find a small flaw in the moulding, which needs to be cut around. Just turn the extra amount into a standard size ready made frame to recoup the extra cost.
Suppliers can not win on this as the other month I ordered a couple of packs of moulding, which were supposed to be 6mt according to the website, when they arrived , they were only 5mt in them so we were short,!!!!!!!!! my fault as I ordered by the pack not by the length

Tend to agree with Steve's point about better to receive too much moulding rather than not enough. At least with too much you can be getting on with the job and earning rather than waiting for additional moulding.

I find with FF mouldings too many "small flaws" these days to cut around. Therefore, a maxim we always adhere to is, if we loose out financially through a situation like this (extra moulding sent/charged for) try and recoup that money asap. As Steve suggested "RMF" or/and as we do "framed seconds" in the box out side.

The advice given on here by more astute members than me, to build in 30% wastage in pricing, is worth noting.

Can I ask, re damaged deliveries, do others photograph the condition of the delivery as we do?

Peter

Tend to agree with Steve's point about better to receive too much moulding rather than not enough. At least with too much you can be getting on with the job and earning rather than waiting for additional moulding.

I find with FF mouldings too many "small flaws" these days to cut around. Therefore, a maxim we always adhere to is, if we loose out financially through a situation like this (extra moulding sent/charged for) try and recoup that money asap. As Steve suggested "RMF" or/and as we do "framed seconds" in the box out side.

The advice given on here by more astute members than me, to build in 30% wastage in pricing, is worth noting.

Can I ask, re damaged deliveries, do others photograph the condition of the delivery as we do?

Peter

Very sorry for the double post.

Must try harder

Peter

Steve N wrote: a lot of the suppliers now seem to use Tuffnells, so all my supplies get damaged ,

Well we used Arqadia who use DX logistics. We used to call them "Damage Xpected"

Arqadia now use Tuffnells

That all depends on how you size up the job Steve, I work on the basis of, can i get the frame out of a 2.4m length which is about the normal length supplied, if not I order 2 sticks ! if they come at 3m great I have spare to work with and possibly make a small un to sell off - but when I get 3 sticks it just plain annoying. the suppliers know that the majority of their lengths arent 3m so it just gets them extra sales by rounding it up and we bear the brunt out of our profits - with a van delivery I get less damage and can return extras like this for credit - with Trashenels I expect you would need the extra length but sending the extra back !! like thats going to happen - Not

As most suppliers get the moulding in by the pack, it's whatever in the pack, or if you order by the length, rather than the pack, then you have to expect to get a bit extra if the lengths are longer than usual or if they are shorter,so they send you more shorter lengths to make up your order quantity, the suppliers is not going to start cutting lengths down so you only get what you want. When I first started framing, suppliers only supplied full packs no lengths.

The other week, one lot of moulding we had ordered was only just over 6ft in length, so we ended up with around 12 or 14 lengths of moulding which took us well over what we had ordered , BUT, we only just managed to do the frames as the length of the moulding did not yield very well , so we also ended up with a lot of short bits of mould of no use but for the bin.

You could build a bigger wastage factor into your pricing, as somebody else has already mentioned in this thread .

Im very new to it all, and only order small quantities but I find Wessex very good with the customer service, and the bonus that they deliver on their own vans!

I use both Lion and Arqadia so I get all my deliveries of mouldings and boards etc. via Tufnell's.
It must be down to the local depot and delivery network but I very rarely have any problems with transport damage and really cannot praise them enough, it's excellent service as far as I'm concerned.
The local Tufnell's depot is Basingstoke, it would be interesting to hear who gets bad service / damage issues and where they are based.

kuduframes wrote:I use both Lion and Arqadia so I get all my deliveries of mouldings and boards etc. via Tufnell's.
It must be down to the local depot and delivery network but I very rarely have any problems with transport damage and really cannot praise them enough, it's excellent service as far as I'm concerned.
The local Tufnell's depot is Basingstoke, it would be interesting to hear who gets bad service / damage issues and where they are based.

I think you might be right about it being down to the local depot. Ours is Gateshead I think, and there used to be very little damage with a previous driver. That changed when we got a new driver and despite me pointing out the damage and explaining why is causes me a problem, the service is still poor. He now just puts "damaged" into his PDA without me asking! I've mentioned it to both Lion and Arquadia in the hope that they will change company, but I think their options are limited for delivering lengths of moulding. We get round it by ordering chop frames where possible as they hardly ever suffer damage.

The thing with Tuffnells is that the drivers does not load the lorry/van, so the driver just follows his schedule, turns up outside your shop, then has to search for your package, you might be his first drop, but your package could have been loaded first, so it's buried under everything else on the truck . If I was a driver, I would soon get Pi$$ed off and start walking over all the packages and throwing them around.
Our is depot is Yate near Bristol, supposed to be a one of the worst in the country we have had our orders split, so moulding arrives one day, then the mountboard arrive the next, orders not scanned, and they go missing, so Tuffnells don't even know where it is in their company

I use Holroyd. They are based near Glasgow and have their own van.
They will give you small lengths to make your own samples.
Might be worth checking them out.

For 10 years our Tuffnells deliveries came from the Plymouth depot, but now they've opened one in Exeter. We had the same driver for 10 years from Plymouth and he was brilliant, hardly any damage or problems at all. So far the Exeter depot is doing the same, although our regular driver has just left so we are keeping fingers crossed it stays that way.

Before Tuffnells we had Arqadia stuff from DX and they really were terrible. Missing deliveries, lots of damage, delivery deadlines missed. We had to go to their depot numerous times to get packages because they didn't have enough drivers to cover this area. The worst one was when an agency driver turned up in a transit van, he had all the back deliveries they'd missed in this area shoved into the van and our moulding was in amongst it all bent like a boomerang! He couldn't see why that was a problem until he pulled he parcel out and the breaks the in the lengths were more obvious. Now pretty much everything comes via Tuffnells.