large frames made from thin mouldings

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CRS
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large frames made from thin mouldings

Post by CRS »

Hi everybody! I am pretty new here and so am I in the framing sector. So far, I just framed my own works from time to time.
Since shortly I am appling these "skills" to profession and started to make frames for sale through our company.
For now, nothing special or expensive... mostly MDF-mouldings to keep the cost low and the price reasonable for our customers.
The first projects went pretty good but now I am faced with a problem, which I would share with you and ask for assistance.

I've just finished some large frames (100 by 70 cm) using a moulding that's only 25mm deep and 20mm wide.
I already feared it... the moulding is too thin for this size and the lower bar bends under its own weight.
The effect is nothing new and I have seen it several times before... especially on cheap massproduced frames.
Image

Adding a bar or a strap to keep the lower bar fixed to the upper one is no option.
I would like to leave the back removable, so that the customer is able to switch the picture by himself if he wants to.
Also they like the thin profile on large formats, so I would like to keep this product offered.
Sometimes the problem is solved by adding self fixing brackets, which are fixed on the backboard and screwed to the moulding to keep everything together.
Image

I already searched if Craft, Lion or similar companys could provide such parts.
Unfortunately they could only deliver pretty large brackets, which are way too big to build it into my frames.
When glas, passepartout, print, and backpanel was layed into the frame only 8mm remain for the bracket piece.
Therefore the bracket has to be tiny... like the one on the picture below.
Image

Does anyone know where I could obtain such a small self fixing bracket or does anyone an supplier who has such a thing?
Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thank you a lot for your replys and your hints.
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prospero
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Re: large frames made from thin mouldings

Post by prospero »

Hi and Welcome to the Forum. :D

You frame your own original artwork using this moulding?

Forgive me for saying so, but if you ran a restaurant would you serve the wine in coffee mugs? :lol:
It would taste the same, but doesn't really create the right impression. :(

I have this conversation with artists quite often. They do really good work but skimp on the framing to 'keep costs down'.
Result? If the work isn't presented properly then it will be perceived as 'cheap'. The fact is, if you make a good quality product
you can command higher prices and more than offset the extra costs of framing. You are saving a few $$$ on the actual moulding
but that is 'penny-pinching'. There is the same amount of work involved in making the frame, if not more. As you found out, you have
to go to a lot of extra trouble and expense to counteract the deficiencies of an inferior moulding.

The basic design is fine. But the profile is easily obtained in a hardwood - oak/ash/maple/etc. On BIG frames the addition of a
reinforcing subframe ('strainer frame' in the US). This is a flat section that fits into the back of the frame. The frame is screwed
to this from the inside and the hangings are attached to this. It takes all the weight and stress. The outer skinny moulding only
serves to hold the glass. This is ideal for deep, narrow mouldings as there is room to swallow the thickness of the subframe.

MDF moulding is made for the mass-produced end of the market where costs have to be shaved to the minimum. It's basically
crap and not designed to last. Also, it doesn't hold screws too well and is easily damaged. An oak moulding might cost x4 the price
but looks better, it's stronger and will be a lot less hassle in the long run. I think you'll find that if you crunch the numbers it
will probably work out cheaper and your work could command a higher price.

Just saying............ :wink:
Watch Out. There's A Humphrey About
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Steve N
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Re: large frames made from thin mouldings

Post by Steve N »

Welcome to the forum...

I don't want to sound as if we are picking on you but....the finished product you have produced is very much like the frames you can get from IKEA, it most probably cost you more to produce than what you could pay at IKEA
In fact IKEA use the same brackets (in you 1st photo of brackets) for the same reason and for Health & Safety reasons, as the glass would pop out, which is why they use very cheap plastic glazing
If you are expecting you customers to take the frame apart to change posters and then put it back correctly, well that an't going to happen, rather trying to cure a problem, it would be better to eliminate the problem in the first place, ie use a better moulding, even a real solid wood moulding of that size would be better than the paper covered MDF moulding

Again, sorry if it sounds like I'm putting down your product, which I'm not , just putting down the materials you are using :sweating:
Steve CEO GCF (020)
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CRS
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Location: Chemnitz
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Re: large frames made from thin mouldings

Post by CRS »

Hi Steve and thanks for your comments.

Your are right... relating to the materials and the producer as well.
The pictured frame is actually one from IKEA. I do not make or sell these. The moulding I am using is a lot flatter (only 25mm).
But it is MDF as well... a lot more dense that IKEAs, but still MDF.

However, I just took a picture from that frame in a retaurant, cause I was eating there that day. I saw that they had the same problem.
Interesting side note: the manager of the restaurant seems not to care about the hanging frame at all.

As I looked closer on these frames I saw these brackets, which I am now searching for. Not only for this specific application.
I think I could use them for other purposes as well.
CRS
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed 04 Sep, 2019 12:31 pm
Location: Chemnitz
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Interests: Drawing and Painting (mostly dry techniques), Art in general

Re: large frames made from thin mouldings

Post by CRS »

Hi prospero and thanks for your comments.

No need to excuse... your reproach is justified. Also your wine-coffee comparison is quite funny and pretty much on point.
But in fact I do not frame my own works with that kind of moulding.

Most of these "former trials" have been done with profiles from real wood, sometimes with scratchbuilt stuff too.
But the frames I was writing about will be sold with fairly favourable prints. Therefore the customer expects a favourable price for the frame as well.

And, as I wrote before, they do like the skinny moulding for large formats very well.
The idea of a subframe is not bad, but this would prevent the removability of the backpanel. Just as the mentioned strap or the bar would do.

Moreover the flat moulding does not provide enough space to add a stable subframe.
That is why I am searching for these small self fixing brackets. Any ideas where I can get these?
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prospero
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Re: large frames made from thin mouldings

Post by prospero »

:D I see where you're coming from now....

Didn't mean to be reproachful. It's just that I get this all the time. People buy cheapo frames and they bring them
to me and expect miracles. :lol:

As for the brackets, I don't know where to source them. Basically your google is as good as mine. :roll:
They look like the kind of thing made for a frame factory (maybe an IKEA supplier) who would buy them literally
by the truckful from the far east. They don't tend to be readily available. I've not seen any anywhere....
Also bear in mind that you'd need a press to fix them to the backing board (Not Cheap). Banging them in with a
hammer on an anvil will getting very tedious.

Btw. You (or a customer) can easily remove a subframe to access the back. If they can unscrew the bracket then they
can unscrew a subframe.
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Re: large frames made from thin mouldings

Post by Not your average framer »

Using these MDF mouldings is not saving you much money, compared to the problems which are likely to occur and the negative effect that this is almost certain to have up on your reputation. Not only that, but the fixes that are being discussed such as sub frames, or these little brackets are not saving you either time, or money. You will be making your life a lot easier by spending the cost of the existing mouldings and the extra fixes on a much more suitable frame moulding.

May I suggest that you have a look at SW2724 (oak) from Rose & Hollis and see if this fits your budget. Being oak, you can colour it quickly a easily with a decent wood stain / coloured varnish and it looks great. As you have already probably noticed, I am always pushing the quick, easy and simple way of doing things, it really is the way to control your costs. I think you will probably find that something along these lines will be your most cost effective, easy and simple option. Less easy and simple options usually cost you more somewhere along the line.
Mark Lacey

“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer
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