To bole or not to bole

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sofar
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To bole or not to bole

Post by sofar »

Hi all
Forum newbie - but ancient in life.
Let me say from the start that I am not a framer and (for the moment) have no designs of becoming such, but..........

I have some 19thC. wood / gesso frames which I have decided to renovate, one of which was made by a significant figure.
This particular frame has been treated to some abuse in the past, the last act of which was to smother the whole lot in paint. I have spent some 20 odd hours cleaning it with another 10 or so hours still to go to finish, and it was during this cleaning that I decided it would be nice to return the frame to its original condition, ie: gold gilding.
I have no experience with any sort of gilding - but - how hard can it be? No need to answer that.
I intend to use imitation leaf on one frame to get a 'feel' for the process, but would really like (and I appreciate there is a considerable difference) to use real gold leaf for the better frame. Watching a number of videos, I suppose I have been mesmerised by seeing the leaf suck down onto the frames and want to 'have a go' ....... and here comes the question;
The frame has its original covering of gesso - various nicks and dings over the years. It has the remains of the red bole showing along with small areas of clear moulding, wood, after rubbing down. Do I need to re-cover the whole frame with new bole before gilding, or would the existing gesso and bole be sufficient to gild over?
I was wondering whether the age (probably 1850-ish) of the frame along with original coverings would negate the necessity for further covering.
Not looking to achieve 'as new', that would be wrong. Looking for a finish that reflects its age but with an obvious renovation.
As for the other frame, I plan to paint with acrylic, rub back and size with Wunda Size then gild with the imitation.

regards
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Re: To bole or not to bole

Post by vintage frames »

I can see you're having a jolly time with this. To answer your questions properly, I'd need to make a few assumptions as to the type of original gilding on that frame. As you may know, there's two styles of goldleaf gilding, oil gilding and watergilding. Oil gilding is where the gold is stuck onto the gesso/bole surface with a slow drying varnish called gold size. This gives a solid- looking effect and is often used when there is a lot of applied ornament. The other method of gilding is water-gilding, and here the gold leaf is floated onto the wet gesso/bole and by absorbing the water, the leaf is sucked down onto the surface and held there by the Rabbit SKin Glue in the gesso/bole mix. Watergilding will give a much deeper and ethereal appearance to the leaf.
You say you have been stripping the old overpaint from the frames. If your stripping also removed the gilding, then the gilt is oil gilt. If however some of the original gilding still remains then there is a good chance that it's water laid leaf. And to quickly answer you question, you can indeed re-water gild on top of the worn gesso/bole. You would need to polish it gently with some 0000 wire wool, then a cotton cloth to rub it to a shine. After that, paint on a solution of standard RSG diluted x 4 with water and allow to dry before setting out to water-gild.
I know you've never done it before but after you've read up on it a bit, then what I've said will make more sense.
As for the other frame that you're using imitation leaf on, don't forget that you'll need to seal the surface of the frame with diluted shellac 50/50 meths, before applying the Wundasize.
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Re: To bole or not to bole

Post by poliopete »

Hello sofar and welcome to the FF :D

What a fascinating op and as usual, vintage replies with generous and expert advice. I hope this thread develops.

Peter.
sofar
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Re: To bole or not to bole

Post by sofar »

is this working?
sofar
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Re: To bole or not to bole

Post by sofar »

OK, trying again ...
Thanks for that reply and advice, your words make perfect sense, although I'm not too sure about the 'jolly time' bit!!
From what you say it would appear to be water gilding, and happy about that.

Having applied the RSG and allowed to dry, am I right in thinking that a little RSG added to the water (10%) is the way to go, or is it just plain water when actually gilding?

Forgot to take photo's for before/after comparison, damn and blast ........ but with a memory like mine I am happy to remember I forgot.
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Re: To bole or not to bole

Post by prospero »

Can you post a photo of the beast? :D


One thing to do before you start finishing is to make good any loose corners and applied ormaments so you have
a sound base. 90% of the work is preparation on things like this. Once you get to gilding you are on the downhill slope.
Without seeing it I'm thinking the overpainting could have destroyed any original patination on the gold and trying to
blend new into old is a hard task. If desirable, better to strip the gesso down as far as you can and build up a new base.
Watch Out. There's A Humphrey About
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Re: To bole or not to bole

Post by vintage frames »

I would say, keep as much of the original gilding and finish as is possible. Where you do patch in new gilding, then your challenge will be to blend the two in. But it doesn't look like your much put off by a good challenge.
As regards the water - it's called gilding liquor. Using a small jam jar, fill it with a 50/50 or 60/40 mix of water and cheap brandy. Using your gilder's pencil, stir it around whilst you drip in some standard RSG. Add enough that the liquor goes slightly cloudy but just enough that the pencil almost disappears from the far side of the jam jar.
The gilder's pencil is a round no10 PURE sable watercolour brush. You'll need this is you want to apply the leaves in overlapping layers.
And one other thing. Make sure you buy the very best quality knife when trying to cut the gold leaf. Anything less will have you firing it across the room in frustration!
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sofar
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Re: To bole or not to bole

Post by sofar »

OK - will follow that advice, thanks.
As regards trying to blend original to new, there is not much original to blend unfortunately. What there is left is so patchy as to be - shall I call it uneconomic - so it might be clearing completely after all. Not what I was hopeing for.

Re photo, will give it a try, my so called workshop is not the largest and I have table saw and planer etc cluttering. Got enough room to turn round type of thing.
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Re: To bole or not to bole

Post by vintage frames »

I'ts a pity there's only a little of the original gilding left as it provides a useful reference to the finish. No matter... Another thing to watch out for now, is the stripped surface water absorbent or still sealed by some of the overpaint? If you paint over the surface with some clean water, it should spread out evenly and soak slowly into the gesso/bole. If however it beads up then the gesso/bole probably won't be suitable for water gilding. Then it would be a case of oil-gilding instead.
But let's see.
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Re: To bole or not to bole

Post by Bertie »

vintage frames wrote: Sun 24 Nov, 2019 2:56 pm And one other thing. Make sure you buy the very best quality knife when trying to cut the gold leaf. Anything less will have you firing it across the room in frustration!
So this one:
https://www.goldleafsupplies.co.uk/koln ... ers-knife/

..is worth the extra 30 quid compared to the stainless steel option they sell?
(Another opportunity taken to squeeze VF for knowledge!)

I'm interested in seeing this frame, hope you can post a pic.. and good luck!
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Re: To bole or not to bole

Post by poliopete »

"I'm interested in seeing this frame, hope you can post a pic.. and good luck"

Same here :D

Peter.
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Re: To bole or not to bole

Post by vintage frames »

Re. the Kohlner knife - no it's not worth it! It's just a branding exercise along with all the other stuff they make. Nothing wrong if anyone wants to use the method but I feel it's aimed at those who think the magic comes out of a bottle and don't realize the cost. The stainless steel knife from the same excellent company, Gold Leaf Supplies, is just the job. I think it's actually made by Handover who produce all the brushes.
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sofar
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Re: To bole or not to bole

Post by sofar »

Good to know the cheaper knife is OK - have already ordered that one!

Hopefully pic's will upload - this is my 2nd attempt at it.

Frame is 1700 X 800
Attachments
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Re: To bole or not to bole

Post by vintage frames »

Really beautiful. What I'm going to ask is - where do you need to regild? I love the way it looks already.
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Re: To bole or not to bole

Post by Bertie »

Wow, that's some frame! Great tenacity to stick to such a big job. Hats off.
How's the mirror itself? And can it be easily replaced if it's scratched?

I'm also glad to hear the cheaper knife passes muster!
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Re: To bole or not to bole

Post by poliopete »

Absolutely beautiful, and thanks for the pictures. I would not mind a look at the brighter frame behind :wink:

Regards the mirror glass, I would think twice before I replaced it. FWIW I find my customers prefer the original.

Peter.
sofar
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Re: To bole or not to bole

Post by sofar »

Ah, now here comes the down side.
I would say the frame has been dropped at some time, enough to damage the arched pediment and break the original plate, because I'm convinced the (now) plate is a replacement.
The plate, that will stay with the frame, it has a little foxing so I am OK with that.
The pediment however, that has a need for a little work. Whoever undertook the initial work did a bit of a friday afternoon job - not the best by a long way, therefore I shall need to restore some of the decorative aspect. I am happy that by the time I have finished it will be as it should.
sofar
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Re: To bole or not to bole

Post by sofar »

VF - having cleaned further, very little of original gilding left.
The edge of frame has original paint, a dark green which is nearly black. I shall repaint edge and part of front in similar.
What I wanted to do was water gilding in pure gold leaf, but now I am wondering if the imitation leaf would give a better finish - no desire to burnish to high sheen and because of age, having applied it, distressing would bring it back to what you would expect to see age wise.
I'm in a bit of 'shall I shan't I' position at the moment.
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Re: To bole or not to bole

Post by Not your average framer »

Damaged, or not, it's a lovey frame. By the time you've finished restoring it, you will have learnt some very worthwhile skills and I hope that you will enjoy the journey along the way.
Mark Lacey

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Re: To bole or not to bole

Post by vintage frames »

I was trying to think of a nice polite way of saying this but if I can be a bit more direct - DO NOT put any metal leaf near that frame. It is beautiful, is watergilded and has a wonderful dusty patina, and don't get me started on commenting about the plate.
Any re-gilding now has to be with real gold. Because of the finish, you can afford to knock back heavily on the finished gild and so hide any first-time errors. Just ask anymore questions if you need more help.
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