Glass choices

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girlfromkent
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Glass choices

Post by girlfromkent »

Hello All

I am just starting up and trying to get organised. I am a bit confused by glass choices - particularly with regard to TruVue.
Obviously I want to offer the customer a choice, but equally I don't want to offer them 9 different types of glass and scare them off.

What do people typically offer? I'm thinking:
1 - Float
2 - Low reflection - but which one?! Conservation Reflection Control, or Ultra Vue 70? OR Should I offer a low reflection glass that doesnt have UV protection? Are either of these good enough to use most of the time as a standard glass?
3 - High UV protection - UltraVue 92?
4 - Museum

What do you guys think?
Thanks in advance
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Re: Glass choices

Post by Not your average framer »

I would speak to your local Wessex Pictures branch, they have got a lot of in-house expertise about glass and their local branch, I think is probably in Ashford, so it is probably not far away from you. Wessex have some very useful displays which will enable you to demonstrate for a customers artwork will look viewed through the different types of glass in the hand held display.

I would not be to concerned to buy much in the way of the more expensive glass stocks straight away, because you don't know how busy things will be at the moment and knowing if Wessex will be making glass delivers at the present time, will be an additional factor to consider. Wessex also operates a cut to size service, which may be worth considering using at first, while to assess that level of business that you are likely to experience, immediately after the lock down starts to get lifted.

Best wishes for your start up,
Mark.
Mark Lacey

“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer
girlfromkent
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Re: Glass choices

Post by girlfromkent »

Hi Mark,

Thanks for the reply. Yes, I have just emailed Wessex.

And you're right, I think it will be wise to order cut to size for now. I'm more needing to get my head around it in terms of pricing.
I've got a pricing template that I'm adapting but I've got to the glass bit and got myself in knots.

It's more a question of what people tend to offer, and what customers go for I guess.
I'm looking to add it in to my pricing template as one price for each - float, XX and XX???? So I need to know what XX and XX should be so I can markup based on cost of glass from Wessex. If that makes any sense at all...

Thanks
Megan
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Re: Glass choices

Post by Not your average framer »

Be very very careful not to price your mark up to low. It's an easy mistake to make and the consequences can be a real problem.
Mark Lacey

“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer
Not your average framer
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Re: Glass choices

Post by Not your average framer »

Hi Megan,

I think you might be well placed for road access to your local Wessex branch, or the Wessex branch at leatherhead, on the M25 (which used to be Glass and Mirror, before Wessex added it to the group) and also Simons, (as the A2 takes you directly to the Blackwall tunnel and the other side of the Blackwall tunnel is the A102 which takes you most of the way to Hackney (which is where Simons are located).
Mark Lacey

“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
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huntvambo
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Re: Glass choices

Post by huntvambo »

I offer std. 2mm float, 99UV, AR70UV, AR99UV
Biggest seller now is AR70UV, more for the AR than the 70UV, it practically sells itself.
I've got several of my own pictures on display with the AR70, people see the benefit and once they've had it they'll have it evrytime.
girlfromkent
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Re: Glass choices

Post by girlfromkent »

Thanks Mark.
Wessex are delivering again from Monday so all good there.

Cheers,
Megan
Abacus
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Re: Glass choices

Post by Abacus »

I think Wessex produced a guide to pricing specialist glass, ask them to send it to you.

We mark up AR70 by a lot less than ordinary glass, because the profit is so much larger.

Think of a picture say 20” x 16”. Just the glass, nothing else.

Cost of ordinary glass - £1.20
Mark up x 5 - £6
So customer pays £6, profit on glass is £4.80
Cost of AR70 - £10
Mark up x 2 - £20
So customer pays £20, profit on glass is £10

This is just an example off the top of my head, but you get the idea.
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Steve N
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Re: Glass choices

Post by Steve N »

huntvambo wrote: Thu 07 May, 2020 7:43 pm I offer std. 2mm float, 99UV, AR70UV,
Same here, also ask wessex about a display frame with 3 different glass in, Normal Standard 2mm Glass, then AR70UV, then the last one is the old fashion 'Non-Reflective glass' when I show customers the middle one, at first they think there is no glass there until I knock it with my knuckle, good selling trick
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cleaver
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Re: Glass choices

Post by cleaver »

Love to see you in full-on sales mode, Steve....I bet they don't stand a chance!

Hope you are well, buddy. Good to see your name pop up. :D
girlfromkent
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Re: Glass choices

Post by girlfromkent »

Abacus wrote: Fri 08 May, 2020 8:42 am I think Wessex produced a guide to pricing specialist glass, ask them to send it to you.

We mark up AR70 by a lot less than ordinary glass, because the profit is so much larger.

Think of a picture say 20” x 16”. Just the glass, nothing else.

Cost of ordinary glass - £1.20
Mark up x 5 - £6
So customer pays £6, profit on glass is £4.80
Cost of AR70 - £10
Mark up x 2 - £20
So customer pays £20, profit on glass is £10

This is just an example off the top of my head, but you get the idea.
That's helpful, thank you. I've done something similar so this is reassuring :)
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Re: Glass choices

Post by Not your average framer »

I think that there is a bit more to the pricing angle to mention other than just the lower mark up on specialist glasses. You do need to understand the added cost of wastage when cutting more expensive glass from full sheets. If you are unable to sell that waste to a customer, you will have to recover that cost from your profits and if it does not come from your profits from selling specialist glasses, then it needs to come from somewhere else and that will be from you profits on something else, other than specialist glass.

If you are at the stage of starting a framing busininess, or only able to operate your business at a lower level, it is helpful to understand how much not rate of usage will affect you cash flow, if you are buying and stock specialist glass in volumes that mean that the period required to recover the cost of buying your stock of such glass, means that the time taken to get a return on your investment is depriving you of cash flow for a period that has an excessive effect on you cash flow.

I've got quite a surprisingly large volume of off cuts of specialist glasses, which has built up over the years and although many bits are quite large, there is a larger volume of customers, who will want specialist glass for larger sizes of frames, that seems to be the case with those customers who want specialist glass in smaller frames. To prevent cutting your glass up in such a way that too many off cuts fall below sizes that are too small, there may be some occasions when it may be advantageous to order some sizes cut to size, direct from your suppliers. Don't ask me what size that may be, as I don't think that it is easy to determine that in a way that is always useful, but it is just something to be aware of at certain times.

If there will be times when you buy whole sheets of specialist glass and other times when you buy specialist glasses as cut to size from your suppiier, then you should be aware at which point it will make more sense to bite the bullet and pay the extra for a full sheet if the remainder of that sheet will leave you off cuts of sufficiently usable size and if your level of usage suggests that this makes good sense. Also I price specialist glass in such a way that I can determine if I want to buy it in full sheets, or cut to size, according to need afterwards.

Just because you can sometimes obtain the glass that you need for the job at a lower price, does not necessarily suggest that you will charge for it at a different rate. What happens when things turn out differently and your costs are much tighter and profits are under pressure. If you are only a small business that is often under pressure because you are trading at smaller volumes, decisions like this can make a real difference, which can be worth considering.
Mark Lacey

“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer
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Steve N
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Re: Glass choices

Post by Steve N »

I just copied and pasted from another thread from 2017 I posted on

We all have our own way of working out selling prices, I know what my market can stand .
I forgot to explain that we do not mark up Specialist Glass the same as normal Clear glass or other sheet material, our mark up less on specialist glass as we have most of it cut to size for us, so we do not carry the cost of wastage or the 'Risk Factor' such , storage problems (not damaging it , such as knocking some thing against it and breaking a full sheet :sweating: ), or paying for a pack of 4 sheet (to get a discount) then storing until you may sell it , having money stored in stock :sweating: .
Having it cut to size works for us as we make everything in batches , so if using specialist glass we, measure this week for orders next week, Wessex deliver on Tuesdays, so falls in very well with the way we work

We have a Glass Comparison Sheet which Wessex sent out a few years ago ( so prices are way out of date )just noticed it has November 2012 on the sheet, this may be of interest

Working on a 750x500 size sheet of glass, and suggested selling price and mark up

2mm Clear glass cost £1.67 selling £10.01 PROFIT £8.34 %mark up 500

2.5mmTruVue W/W AR Cost £16.25 Selling £40.62 PROFIT £24.37 %mark up 200

2.5mm TruVue Museum cost £40.31 Selling £90.70 PROFIT £50.39 %mark up 125

3mm TruVue Optium cost £100.15 Selling £200.30 PROFIT £100.15 %mark up 100


If you have cut to size, you are just unwrapping , cleaning and popping it into the frame, job done, money for nothing :cash: :dance:

We work on similar mark ups , IMHO if you use the same mark up as normal glass around 500%, then you could be pricing youself out of the market


Back to today.... I stock Stanard Clear, Consevation (99% UV) and AR P70 (70%UV) Standard glass i about 5 x mark up, the other two are much less, much the same as in the examples above
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Not your average framer
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Re: Glass choices

Post by Not your average framer »

It will be interesting to see what is going to happen to suppliers prices after the shut down gets lifted, but I guess that we won't know that for a while. I am already receiving the state pension and now I am also getting the attendance allowance, because I've been so messed up by my stroke. I need to keep going, simply to avoid losing my mobility, so giving up does not seem to be much of an option, but at least recieving my pension and the attendance allowance means that I won't have to struggle as much as I otherwise might need to.

Any significant pressure from increased supplier prices, can cause us to reconsider our prices to our customers and perhaps not help our business volume levels, as a result, which may thrown another spanner into the works. Having said all of that, understanding how to make the most of what we are able to offer as specialist glass choices to our customers and how to best price our specialist glass choices to get the best combination of sales volume and prices as a combination may contribute particularly to our businesses profitabilty during the coming perio.

In my own case, I am wondering how I can best exploit my own stock of specialist glass off cuts to create some extra advantage to me, without under mining my normal pricing, or volume of specialist glass sales, but it's not an easy thing to get this right and so far I have not tried to do anything about this.
Mark Lacey

“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer
Abacus
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Re: Glass choices

Post by Abacus »

With regard to supplier prices, we still don’t know how Brexit will affect us, most of our supplies come from the EU so will depend on the deal (or lack of one)
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