Table saw, best blade moulding cutting?

Get help and framing advice from the framing community
carpman
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon 10 Mar, 2014 10:42 am
Location: London
Organisation: Innes Photography
Interests: photography, framing, fishing

Table saw, best blade moulding cutting?

Post by carpman »

Hi, I really fancy cutting my own mouldings from blank lengths of wood, hard and soft, and so am looking to get a good quality table saw. Question is which would be the best blade?

Research has lead me to getting a blade with high number of teeth and not to wide, but stable.

Any thoughts as only ones I can find dedicated to moulding cutting are from fletcher terry, but seem to be a specific machines.

Thanks
Not your average framer
Posts: 11013
Joined: Sat 25 Mar, 2006 8:40 pm
Location: Devon, U.K.
Organisation: The Dartmoor Gallery
Interests: Lost causes, saving and restoring old things, learning something every day
Location: Glorious Devon

Re: Table saw, best blade moulding cutting?

Post by Not your average framer »

I have a 10" teflon coated cross cutting blade on my table saw, it is carbide tipped and has 60 teeth. Most narrow blades are not carbide tipped and are not necessarily as durable as the wider carbide tipped wider blades, but these narrower blades are often intended for saws, where the electric moters fitted have less power from smaller motors, which are primarily intended to keep the overall price of the saw down. This is usually, where the price of the saw is intended to be more important than the performance of the saw.

I've gone for a 10" saw, with a 2,000 watt electric motor, which usually does not slow the blade speed, while cutting. You may have to adjust your expectations, when using a saw with a smaller blade diameter and a lower power electric motor. Generally speaking, the narrower thickness blades are not likely to remain flat and stable, if you are attempting to do any trenching cuts as the blade will probably lack rigidity and dish the blade as it distorts to take the line of least resistance. I would suggest that wider blades are probably safest, as they are less likely to fail if they are mistreated.

Thin blades and lower power electric motors are probably more likely to snag in the wood and kick back, either damaging the blade, or throwing what you are cutting at you and potentially straight at your face. Although I have a good range of woodworking saws and other equipment, cutting your own mouldings is much more demanding on the own equipment than most people realise and may be a lot less economic to do than most people realise. As many on this forum will already know, I like quick, simple, easy and sensibly cost effective. Well foe me, I can buy mouldings at prices, that gives me little incentive to want to make my own.
Mark Lacey

“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer
fusionframer
Posts: 600
Joined: Thu 02 Sep, 2010 8:16 pm
Location: Badminton
Organisation: Fusion Picture Framing
Interests: framing
Location: Badminton

Re: Table saw, best blade moulding cutting?

Post by fusionframer »

I would happily recommend freud blades. I have them on table saws and chop saws.

This one is decent for cross cutting.

https://www.toolstation.com/lp40m-tct-s ... gIXufD_BwE

Cheers

Nick
www.fusionframing.co.uk

Never trust a dog with orange eyebrows.
fusionframer
Posts: 600
Joined: Thu 02 Sep, 2010 8:16 pm
Location: Badminton
Organisation: Fusion Picture Framing
Interests: framing
Location: Badminton

Re: Table saw, best blade moulding cutting?

Post by fusionframer »

Btw, obvious, but know of people not checking this. The kerf (thickness) of blade must be greater than the riving knife.

Nick
www.fusionframing.co.uk

Never trust a dog with orange eyebrows.
vintage frames
Posts: 1349
Joined: Tue 12 Jun, 2012 6:05 pm
Location: West Wales
Organisation: https://www.dermotmcardle.co.uk/
Interests: Making picture frames
Contact:

Re: Table saw, best blade moulding cutting?

Post by vintage frames »

Just make sure you buy a TCT blade ( carbon tipped ) and as Fusionframer suggests, Freud is a good make. I'm presuming you're going to use a table to rip-saw into bought in planks or boards. Again make sure you buy PAR timber ( planed all round ). This is because you will need the accuracy of the planed edges and right angles as a reference surface to creat whatever moulding you have in mind.
There will also then be the hazard that when you slice off more than two shapes from the original board, you will lose that reference surface and have to hope and rely on the quality of cut by your chosen saw. Even the best saws can cause the cut to drift and you only see this when you come to join up the mitres. The only way around this is to buy a planer thicknesser.
But don't be put off by all this. I've been ripping into timbers for years now with a builder's site saw and always managed in the end. For joining, either use a band clamp or if you feel the need to underpin, use a pin hammer on the back of the frames to knock the front faces flush.
Affordable Gilding Course for Professional Framers-https://www.dermotmcardle.co.uk/
https://www.instagram.com/dermotmcardle/
carpman
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon 10 Mar, 2014 10:42 am
Location: London
Organisation: Innes Photography
Interests: photography, framing, fishing

Re: Table saw, best blade moulding cutting?

Post by carpman »

Thanks for all the information it is great help.


I plan on using the Evolution RAGE5S Evolution Rage 5-S 255mm, it has 1800w motor and has good reviews.

I intend to us splines to join frames.

Thanks
carpman
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon 10 Mar, 2014 10:42 am
Location: London
Organisation: Innes Photography
Interests: photography, framing, fishing

Re: Table saw, best blade moulding cutting?

Post by carpman »

This is the timber I intend to use, will stained either black or very dark (Shade to be determined) To compliment warm b&w prints.

Thanks
carpman
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon 10 Mar, 2014 10:42 am
Location: London
Organisation: Innes Photography
Interests: photography, framing, fishing

Re: Table saw, best blade moulding cutting?

Post by carpman »

Opps forgot to add link for timbers

https://www.britishhardwoods.co.uk/plan ... -wood.html
User avatar
prospero
Posts: 11492
Joined: Tue 05 Jun, 2007 4:16 pm
Location: Lincolnshire

Re: Table saw, best blade moulding cutting?

Post by prospero »

I should mention that if you are ripping timber then the saw will not yield as smooth an edge as one that has been planed.
OK if you are creating a 'rustic' finish, but the usual thing when preparing timber is to cut it slightly oversize and run it though a
planer/thicknesser to size it. From there you can use a router table to cut rebates and you can shape it the same way up to a point,
but for more complex shapes where you need to remove a lot of material, a spindle moulder is the only viable option. Such kit is
quite big and bulky, not to mention expensive. Simple mouldings are easily made with a router table though if you take your time
to set up the machine. :D
Watch Out. There's A Humphrey About
Not your average framer
Posts: 11013
Joined: Sat 25 Mar, 2006 8:40 pm
Location: Devon, U.K.
Organisation: The Dartmoor Gallery
Interests: Lost causes, saving and restoring old things, learning something every day
Location: Glorious Devon

Re: Table saw, best blade moulding cutting?

Post by Not your average framer »

Quite a few hand held electric planners can be mounted onto the necessary wooden work top with a fence to enable cutting rebates. The depth specified for the particular router may well be something like 8 to 10mm. It is also probably worth checking out planner thicknensers as well, because they can save you a lot of time, compared with other ways of cleaning up sawn surfaces.
Mark Lacey

“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer
vintage frames
Posts: 1349
Joined: Tue 12 Jun, 2012 6:05 pm
Location: West Wales
Organisation: https://www.dermotmcardle.co.uk/
Interests: Making picture frames
Contact:

Re: Table saw, best blade moulding cutting?

Post by vintage frames »

The other way to do this is to just buy the lengths of PAR to the required width needed. This isn't as economical as slicing into wider widths, but you save on having to finish up sawn edges, as Prospero pointed out. And you save on the cost of a planer/thicknesser.
Affordable Gilding Course for Professional Framers-https://www.dermotmcardle.co.uk/
https://www.instagram.com/dermotmcardle/
Not your average framer
Posts: 11013
Joined: Sat 25 Mar, 2006 8:40 pm
Location: Devon, U.K.
Organisation: The Dartmoor Gallery
Interests: Lost causes, saving and restoring old things, learning something every day
Location: Glorious Devon

Re: Table saw, best blade moulding cutting?

Post by Not your average framer »

I manage quite well without a planner thickinesser, but I usually cutting down lengths of Obeche and pine mouldingss. The quality of pine PAR that I can get locally is not the most perfect finish and I find that I much prefer to buy existing mouldings to cut down if I near to. My level of usage in not anything serious, so doing things like this is no big deal.

I tend to cut down the odd off cuts and scraps to make fillets, spacers and slips. I also cut up bits of plywood, when I'm making boxes and display cabinets, or whatever. I'm not doing very much at the present, during the covid lock down, but I don't have any plans to be making my own mouldings.
Mark Lacey

“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer
carpman
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon 10 Mar, 2014 10:42 am
Location: London
Organisation: Innes Photography
Interests: photography, framing, fishing

Re: Table saw, best blade moulding cutting?

Post by carpman »

vintage frames wrote: Tue 12 May, 2020 10:55 am The other way to do this is to just buy the lengths of PAR to the required width needed. This isn't as economical as slicing into wider widths, but you save on having to finish up sawn edges, as Prospero pointed out. And you save on the cost of a planer/thicknesser.
I was thinking of doing this or a size where I can divide into two and will need just one rip cut.
User avatar
prospero
Posts: 11492
Joined: Tue 05 Jun, 2007 4:16 pm
Location: Lincolnshire

Re: Table saw, best blade moulding cutting?

Post by prospero »

:idea: If you have a router table you can adapt it to clean up edges in the manner of a planer with a tall straight-cutting
bit and a thin piece of plastic tacked to the feed-out fence. Obviously you are limited to the width of cut, but you shouldn't
have too much of a problem. :D
Watch Out. There's A Humphrey About
fusionframer
Posts: 600
Joined: Thu 02 Sep, 2010 8:16 pm
Location: Badminton
Organisation: Fusion Picture Framing
Interests: framing
Location: Badminton

Re: Table saw, best blade moulding cutting?

Post by fusionframer »

With a good blade (which was what you asked), you may get away with a decent sand. I find Orbital Sanders the best to use.

Not sure if you have purchased evolution, and i have no experience of that machine, but what you need to check strength of the fence. With some of these type of machines, the fence can have some movement when pushing the timber through making accurate cuts impossible.

Like i said, i have no knowledge of evolution saws. I have a dewalt site saw which i like, but if i need a perfect cut, i would wait till i am back in my workshop.

There are a fair few videos online where people find ways to improve fences, and you can buy upgrades for fences (incra brand springs to mind) so it is possible to make saws more accurate.

Nick
www.fusionframing.co.uk

Never trust a dog with orange eyebrows.
carpman
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon 10 Mar, 2014 10:42 am
Location: London
Organisation: Innes Photography
Interests: photography, framing, fishing

Re: Table saw, best blade moulding cutting?

Post by carpman »

Hi, the Evolution RAGE5S Evolution Rage 5-S has good reviews especially for accuracy.
Not your average framer
Posts: 11013
Joined: Sat 25 Mar, 2006 8:40 pm
Location: Devon, U.K.
Organisation: The Dartmoor Gallery
Interests: Lost causes, saving and restoring old things, learning something every day
Location: Glorious Devon

Re: Table saw, best blade moulding cutting?

Post by Not your average framer »

The Evolution 5-S is a builders site saw, which is capable of cutting through wood with nails in it, without ruining the blade. We are now living through very uncertain times and don't have any certainty of what the future after the lock down is lifted will be like. We may be forced to rely upon whatever wood we are able to obtain, perhaps this saw might be an inspired choice for the unknown times ahead.
Mark Lacey

“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer
Not your average framer
Posts: 11013
Joined: Sat 25 Mar, 2006 8:40 pm
Location: Devon, U.K.
Organisation: The Dartmoor Gallery
Interests: Lost causes, saving and restoring old things, learning something every day
Location: Glorious Devon

Re: Table saw, best blade moulding cutting?

Post by Not your average framer »

This Evolution table saw has some very useful features, which include sliding witth extensions to the table and if your release a locking pin, you can also slide the left hand side of the table backwards and forwards past the blade as though you had a much larger area of table. It is probably worth looking at the Evolution fury 5-S as well because it appears to be much the same, but at a lower price.
Mark Lacey

“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer
carpman
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon 10 Mar, 2014 10:42 am
Location: London
Organisation: Innes Photography
Interests: photography, framing, fishing

Re: Table saw, best blade moulding cutting?

Post by carpman »

I looked at the Evolution fury 5-S, but the reviews are not as good, mainly its accuracy and robustness.

The evolution for the monks the best you can buy.
Not your average framer
Posts: 11013
Joined: Sat 25 Mar, 2006 8:40 pm
Location: Devon, U.K.
Organisation: The Dartmoor Gallery
Interests: Lost causes, saving and restoring old things, learning something every day
Location: Glorious Devon

Re: Table saw, best blade moulding cutting?

Post by Not your average framer »

You usually get what you pay for. It's a budget saw, but for the money it should last quite well doing the lighter loads of work that a picture framers is likely to require from it. Most people expect it to be perfect straight out of the box and never spend any time checking it out and squaring it up and checking the accuracy is correctly adjusted. I would be assuming that for the degree of accuracy that we are going to need, that we would expect to spend a little bit of time, making sure that we get it all set up before expecting a serious level of accuracy.

If you look at the published specifications, it is fairly obvious that it is not the same as most other table saws, the blade speed is extremely slow compared with just about everything else on the market. There are some very good reasons for this, the blade which this machine is fitted with, has much wider teeth than a normal blade and therefore creates much more drag as it cuts throught, whatever you may be cutting and therefore it makes perfect sense that to allow for this that the motor is geared down to a lower speed to create enough torque to overcome the extra drag.

For the level of specification vs the price, it takes some beating. It's obvious that there will be trade offs to produce it to sell at a budget price, but if you get a reasonable length of use out of the saw, before it's time to buy a new saw and it has effectively more than paid for it's self, whats the problem. I've bought a more normal table saw, which has a much higher blade speed, because I want a really good finish to the cut surfaces, but mine is still a budget price range saw and somewhere along the line it will be time to buy a replacement.

What's the difference, you pay your money and you take your choice, but if I end up cutting through a nail, I might need a new blade. I still like the sliding table feature on this particular saw, which is one feature that I don't have of my existing saw and even though I cost a bit more. I chose my existing saw, because it suited what I decided that I needed. I expect that you have chosen this particular saw, because it suits your particular requirements. O.K., It's not a Makita, but you are not paying a Makita price either. Like I said, you pay your money and you take you choice.
Mark Lacey

“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer
Post Reply