Large canvas with scrawny margins

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Felicity
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Large canvas with scrawny margins

Post by Felicity »

Hi all, I've been asked to quote for a series canvases, 2.7m x 1.2m each. I'd be feeling confident except for the scrawny 50mm margin left around the perimeter by the numpty graphic designer, basically wondering if I should let someone else suffer the job. Any opinions please?

I've been looking at stretcher bars that are wide and shallow, such as Mainline STR-5520, so the 20mm depth leaves me with something to tug on for that desireable tidy wrap finish.
I see on the forum experienced framers talk about Mainline positively; has anyone used the LJ Arrow-Head fixings? To go with e.g. 793500000.

To add to the fun I'll be making perforations through the stretched canvas to slide through a series of ipad clamps. Does this spell any particular disaster, such as rippling, or will the stretched canvas not mind too much?

Ah the things we do. Thanks in advance for your thoughts
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prospero
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Re: Large canvas with scrawny margins

Post by prospero »

I would be quite happy stretching them with a 50mm margin. Use stretcher pliers if necessary.

I would be reticent to use a slotted stretcher bar system on something on this scale though. You need full control and
while it may be OK for something smaller I would get bar made to size with the proper sliding double mortise/tenon on
the corners. It would be more expensive but it could save you a LOT of grief. :wink:

Harris-Moore do a good service. You can order custom sizes online. I have used their bars several times and can highly recommend.
They do a bar that is 25mm deep which would be fine with a 50mm margin. Get at least one central crossbar.


Do you mean you intend to make perforation in the image area of the canvas? :roll: If so, don't. :|
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Felicity
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Re: Large canvas with scrawny margins

Post by Felicity »

Thanks for the suggestion for Harris-Moore, I’ve never used them as a supplier and made to size sounds like the best way to go. Surely if the wood is wide enough, then the shallow depth won’t be a problem for overall strength and rigidity.

The client wants to ‘float’ iPads ‘on’ the canvas. I was thinking to put extra cross braces in the right position so the iPad had something solid to bolt through to. But, um, yeah, that means a hole in the stretched canvas. Horrifying thought. These are not having to last for an eternity, I expect the exhibition will run for about 6 months.
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prospero
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Re: Large canvas with scrawny margins

Post by prospero »

Fair enough, but there is a danger if the canvas is under tension that the holes will be the start of a rip. :shock:

Reinforcing the area around the holes might help, but that's a lot of extra faffing. :P
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Re: Large canvas with scrawny margins

Post by Not your average framer »

That is not as bad as you may be thinking, so don't panic! You are not the artist, or graphic designer, so why should you be expected to cut slots into the canvas and cause disastrous effects to the tension and the flatness. What on earth makes them think that it is even remotely possible to stretch a canvas with slots cut into it. Rediculous or what!

That's not only asking the impossible, but it's completely stupid as well, to expect the canvas to be stretched with slots cut into it either before stretching, or after! Sorry, but that is completely NUTS! Where do these people come from? Let them cut the slots themselves, why should you end up taking the blame for their stupidity.

How is such a large canvas going to be fixed into position, or hung? This is an important issue and needs to be discussed, before you even begin to think about starting the work! Taking on a job like this without considering these questions before hand, is a bit scary and probably not a good idea! What is more you need to have something in writing to avoid legal action against you, regarding the customer intention of cutting slots into the canvas.

Completely crazy!
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Re: Large canvas with scrawny margins

Post by Not your average framer »

I repair split and damaged canvases and I know what I'm talking about! Reinforcing the canvas in not going to allow the canvas to have slots cut into it and to get an adequate result of trying to stretch the canvas and get it flat as well. It is not going to work!
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Re: Large canvas with scrawny margins

Post by GeoSpectrum »

Perhaps a cradled panel might be an option? Make a frame out of suitable thickness pine, or use F9 from Rose and Hollis. add cross members, and add a plywood or mdf surface and stretch the canvas over it. You can bond the canvas to the plywood with pva or similar. This would provide plenty of strength for the iPads. I've made quite a number of these and they work well. They are a lot more robust than a traditional stretched canvas. If there is too much flex you can reinforce using an alloy subframe. Or corner bracing.
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Re: Large canvas with scrawny margins

Post by Not your average framer »

If the cradled panel is made of plywood, is should be really solid and perhaps the braces not need to be overly massive.

I've wondered about making cradled panels in my shop down the years, but never done anything around it. The local hardware shop sells plywood which they can cut to size when a hand saw, but it's a pretty basic grade of plywood. I've never taken it any further, particularly because it probably needs a better grade of plywood and I would have no idea what to charge for them.

I have been thinking about making some smaller plywood panels, sanded flat and covered with a heavy canvas embossed sheets of paper made frome very strong fibre and saturating the paper with acrylic resin and then priming the surface with two coats of acrylic gesso. Whether I would be able to make a money doing this is a bit of a big question.

I've got a part sheet of 4mm furniture grade plywood, which is about 4 foot by about 1 and a half foot, so maybe I'll give it a try some day. Who knows?
Mark Lacey

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Felicity
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Re: Large canvas with scrawny margins

Post by Felicity »

Thanks for the ideas everyone. The scrawny margins mean I’ve got sod all depth within which to sort out all the things that change it from a 2D sheet to a 3D object.

For hanging: I was considering either a French cleat system (sub frame mouldings come in 16,17mm depths) and some SpringLOCK fastenings for a spot of security, they’re pretty flimsy so I’d have to faff around positioning quite a few.

For the iPads, thanks for the advice on signing disclaimers etc. I’m not familiar with cradled panels, but it seems that something glued to just a small section of canvas is going to create all sorts of problems. I had assumed some hand stitching to reinforce a small perforation might work, especially if the resulting buckled mess is covered by the larger iPad surface area.

Thinking: cross braces supporting some decent magnets, through the canvas to more magnets, with some sort of frame holding the iPad. Mmm, might ruin the iPad but at least the canvas will remain in tact! Any ideas on magnet vs iPad? Lead barrier + straight jacket?
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Re: Large canvas with scrawny margins

Post by JFeig »

Why do artists think that they can defy the rules of the universe, namely gravity and physics. I do not see this project working in the long run with simply STRETCHED FABRIC on bars of ant sort. By the client being a graphic artist, I assume that the art is produced on an inkjet printer.
The ART has to be on a rigid substrait such as a sheet of aluminum composite sheet such as Durabond®. Look up James Millers comments on the subject.
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Re: Large canvas with scrawny margins

Post by Not your average framer »

It would not be job that I'd be to keen to get involved with. It's a stupid idea and when it all goes wrong who is going to get blamed? I bet the graphic desiner won't be first in line to admit that it was a stupid idea, after all he'll be wanting to protect his reputation, so the other possibility is blame the framer. Personally I would be touch the job with a barge .pole . The job is too much trouble. It's a disaster waiting to happen. I'd leave well alone.
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Re: Large canvas with scrawny margins

Post by GeoSpectrum »

A cradled panel will do the job.
Alan Huntley
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Felicity
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Re: Large canvas with scrawny margins

Post by Felicity »

Ok now I’m comprehending - make the entire 2.7 x 1.2 (3 of) into cradled panels. No stretching in sight. Just roll out the canvas over ply, gluing as you go. Maybe screw through to a sub frame with cross braces first, fill the screw heads so the substrate is smooth. Quite heavy, but hang with a French cleat. Is this the idea? Then I can drill and screw merrily for the ipads.
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Re: Large canvas with scrawny margins

Post by GeoSpectrum »

I tend to glue only and clamp but as long as the heads of the screws are filled and sealed that should be ok. Look out for rust. Might be a good idea to seal the top of the screws with shellac before filling.

You will need to apply some tension to make sure the canvas lays flat. Staple the canvas in place.

I’m back in the workshop Tuesday, give me a call if you want to talk through it.
Alan Huntley
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Felicity
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Re: Large canvas with scrawny margins

Post by Felicity »

Thank you Alan for the offer to share your knowledge - I'll give you a call tomorrow :rock:
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