Daler Rowney Boards not Square

[garpiercy]

Hi this my first post and I have tried to find another post involving this problem but found nothing.
I would really like some feedback from costumers who use Daler Rowney mount boards. I use a lot of Textured Antique White and a few months ago I found a batch of mounts not sitting square on the mount cutter. We phoned Daler to query this and were told, nobody else had complained and it was news to them. We thought we'd leave it and put it down to one dodgy order. Months later and about 300 boards later we are still finding the same problem.

Anyone else having this problem???

Gareth

[Justintime]

In my experience, no type of board is ever truly square.
The optional arm on mount cutters is for squaring the mountboard. I was taught to square all mounts and undermounts first.
It was explained to me that there was no point squaring the board on the panel cutter and expecting it to be square on the mount cutter. Just square it on the mount cutter.

[Not your average framer]

I does not surprise me all that much. Customers bring in canves boards to be framed and it's not uncommon to find that these boards are not completely square, also I find it necessary to check the sizes as there can be variations in size as well. This does not seem to apply just to Daler and rowney, but other manufacturers as well. I would not say that this is a particularly recent thing, but it has been like this for quite a long time. Expecting any degree of precision with stuff like this, is probably wishful thinking. Most of these boards are not particularly value for money anyway. Quite a lot of my cusomers get bit bits of board cut to size at local hardware shops to save money. These are not always completely square, or exact to size either.

I am told that the profit margins on art materials are not great, so I guess they have to be made down to a price to be worth it at all. Hence the lack of accuracy. Lots of this sort of thing is probably made in the far east now and there's not much that comes from the far east, that's much good anyways. I'm especially thinking about imported far eastern mouldings. I'm sorry, I'll wash my mouth out! Perhaps I should not have mentioned far eastern mouldings. Seriously though, the quality of stuff that customer buy like this, is a real shame. Even some supermarket sell canvas boards and I don't expect that their buyers have any idea about what they are buying, or even care. Why are we spending good money, on cheap imported rubbish?

[Not your average framer]

It's often cheaper to paint onto a cheap piece of plywood and some of the local artists are doing this. A lot of local artists are getting more careful with their money and making their own boards and sometimes even their own paint too!

[StevenG]

Regardless of what brand I've used over the years I've never found any of them to be square - I've just come to expect it so I square every board & at this point I don't even think about it - it just makes life easier

[garpiercy]

Great, thanks for the feedback

I must have been very lucky in the past as never have I had to square of any mount board and never seems to be a problem with other colours.

[Abacus]

Yes! We’ve been having this problem with daler boards for many months now. Some can be 5mm out, most are 3mm out. We now always trim them down on the wall cutter, it’s a pain but I think the saving over Larson juhl is worth it (and they are 1200mm not 1120 so after trimming they are still larger!) If we need 1200 then we trim the top and bottom otherwise we trim 10mm off each side.

[Not your average framer]

It is interesting that Daler Rowney say that they were unaware of the problem. It speaks volumes about their quality control procedures! At the end of the day, it's all about money and not letting an issue like maintaining good quility to get in the way of making a good profit. What happens, when their customer eventually realise that they are spending good money for such poor quality stuff. I suspect that much of their credibility and much of their reputation will be gone and much of the profits at the same time.

[Keith Hewitt]

These boards are made and cut at the same time as they pass along on a continuous laminator
The edges on the long grain sides usually the 1125 or 1200 mm side should be spot. I.E. exactly 815 mm from edge to edge.
The problem occurs with the 815 mm edge which is cut by a rotary guillotine
So its not an instant straight cut but more like a knife cut, which slices across the board as it passes under the rotating blade.
There is a word for this rotating blade, but I cant remember it!
IMHO opinion its a miracle if any boards are ever perfectly square.
So best to check and square them if necessary.

For Daler to say "nobody else had complained and it was news to them." you probably got a newbie who hasn't heard of this before.

[Not your average framer]

Keith said

For Daler to say "nobody else had complained and it was news to them." you probably got a newbie who hasn't heard of this before.

Or this may be the standard approved answer which they always give, which sounds nore likely to me! Sorry, but I've spend most of my working life in industry and have seen how things often work, from the other side. It's a standard rule that you don't acknoldge such limitations and failings!

[Abacus]

We’ve never had a problem with Arqadia (Larson Juhl) or bainbridge, or Colormount. Just Daler (and Centrado Spectra which is Daler). I reported it to Centrado when we first started using spectra, they said they’d report it to Daler, although “nobody else has reported a problem” they also gave me a decent credit on the first 100 sheets. I gave up complaining and we just work with it. We use around 100-150 sheets of Spectra a month

[Not your average framer]

I would never rely upon the cut edge of any mount board as being perfect, that's not only not expected to be perfect, but it's also where transit damage is likely to occur as well!

[Steve N]

In my experience, no type of board is ever truly square.
The optional arm on mount cutters is for squaring the mountboard. I was taught to square all mounts and undermounts first.
It was explained to me that there was no point squaring the board on the panel cutter and expecting it to be square on the mount cutter. Just square it on the mount cutter.

I agree with you firs part of the answer, that no type of board is square, but whoever told you that there was no use I using a wall cutter (panel cutter) is just talking out their @$$, because they could not square up both machines. Once you have squared up your wall cutter, the way to square up board on a wall cutter is
I have both measuring stops on the same side of the cutter (right hand side on my Keencut) I set my stops, flip them up, put the board on the cutter, so the right hand edge is just pass the stop, clamp board, cut it, release clamp, turn the board anticlockwise, so the edge you have just cut is on the bottom in the cutter, set it just pass the other stop, clamp, cut, unclamp turn anticlockwise, now flip down the first stop, put board against the stop, clamp, cut, unclamp, rotate anticlockwise, flip down second stop, set the board against the stop, clamp, cut, release clamp, you now have a perfectly square board to use in your squared mountcutter, I always square up my boards with the coloured face, facing me, so I can see any flaws / damage while sizing up the board,

In the day, I used to do demos on mountcutting and decorating at local Guild Branch Meetings, and write articles for Art Business Today

[Justintime]

I do like a straight talker Steve!
I guess I should have added that the advise was based on the fact that I have never been able to get my panel cutter to stay 100% exact...
I understand what you're saying and maybe when I get a minute on a day off, I'll square it up once again, but it still is a valid point that you're reducing the chance of inaccuracy if you do all the cutting on one machine, surely...
Call Bullsh*t if you like, but I'm happy with it!

[Steve N]

I see you have a Fletcher wall cutter (justintime), once you have that squared up, it should stay square, when I used one of them, I had both stops on the left, and squared up the board by cutting and turning the board Clockwise, so that the edge you just cut is on the bottom, so the next cut (on the right hand side of the board ) will be at right angle to the bottom edge, you have just cut, so if you keep turning clockwise the board will end up square. A lot of framers make the mistake when cuting the board, setting the stops on each side of the cutting head so when trying to square up a board never get the edge just cut on the bottom channel (which should be square to the cutting head) in the cutter, so it will not be square, because if the cutter is not square even by 1degree, then when cutting 'willy nilly' it's all over the place
As to the squaring arm on the mountcutter, I think you will find that it will soon become out of square quicker than a wallcutter. but if you do use it, then, do the same thing, cut, turn the board in one direction until you have cut all 4 sides.

Sorry abou being a Straight Talker, but that's the way I am, (got the sack once for it )