Possible alternatives in ripple coat paint / primer.

[Not your average framer]

I can't get ripple coat new me and I don't tend to go visiting the DIY big stores anymore, as often as I did. Are there any recommened alternatives which are worth switching too? I looking for something that sets in a reasonably quick time, has good gap filling qualities, hid the grain well of cheap construction grade pine and sands down quickly and easily.

Any thoughts?

Thanks.

[vintage frames]

There's a few ideas you could try.
Take a small pot of one of the chalk paints that are readily available and add in more whiting ( powdered chalk ) so you have a really thick paint.

Make your own paint with PVA diluted 50/50 water and thickened up with whiting to a wet paste. Add some alcohol to hasten drying.
I lime plastered a large room by mixing PVA with a bag of agricultural lime ( hydrated lime ). What would have cost 2 x 5litre tubs of white paint, only came to £10 for a 20kg bag of lime and some PVA.

Sanding is the tricky bit. Anything using an acrylic binder is going to be hard work to sand smooth. That's why the craftsman's solution is to use RSG gessso. It goes on smooth and painterly. It sands down without effort to a velvety finish.
But yes, - it's a bother!

One thing to watch out for if you use pine. I've found that you need to sand down the surface first before painting on any sort of filler. The prominent open grain will print through in relief to the surface of the filler.

[Not your average framer]

Hi dermot,

Yes, I've found that using PVA does not work well for me and a binder either. I like to use the Craig and Rose 1829 Clalky emusion paints mixed with a matching, or close to matching fairly thick acrylic paint and this seems to work quite well. I don't like to do too much sanding, but rub it back with a wad of kitchen tissue soaked in a mixture of cellulose thinners and methalated spirit. This meths is a much weaker solvent and is not very aggresive, but the cellulose thinners is far too aggresive, I only add a very small about of the cellulose thinners in to the mix. This leaves a very smooth surface finish and even a little of what a been disolved by this mixture tends to get wiped in to little holes and gaps a bit.

I don't like leaving brush marks to be sanded down and just do my best to brush out any brush marks, while the finish is drying. I have been know at times to do a bit of sanding on my bench top belt sander, if I feel the need to. It's not on everything that completely losing all the raised grain on pine is something that matters. Some of my antique and rustic country pine frames work quite well with a little raised grain, but if the grain is too coarse then probably not. A lot of my antique rustic country pine finish have a bit of chalk paint in the base coat, which is part of the effect and tends to tome down some of the raised grain a little, which works really well.

Plenty of my antique country pine stuff, is made from stacked mouldings and I use the chalky emulsion paint to help to blend in the joints between the separate stacked sections. Quite often the first coat of chalky emulsion has a little cascemite added to strengthen the bit that fills and covers and slight gaps at the joins between mouldings. As you have probably already figured out, I like to minimise the time and effort, that I spend producing such items, especially since my stroke. My mobility of my limbs is not what it used to be and I have had to learn new ways of doing things to just keep going.

The odd little bit of raised grain showing through the paine is often a good excuse to rub in a little bit of stained paste wax a bit of warm grey emulsion paint to give a little bit of an aged effect. my antique rustic country pine frames are not exactly what most people would be thinking about when you mention the words "antique pine", they don't look anything like an antique pine wood stain. Instead, they are fairly well aged and a little bit manky and grubby in all the right places, when I got the space (which is not right now), I like to make these in batches to save time.

They are reasonably popular and although they don't quite rush out the door, they are a fairly steady selling thing in my shop, but It definitely helps to be selling these in the middle of a rural area. Hidden fixings a quite important, modern looking fixings don't really look right with something, which has been created to look old. Finding old fashioned looking metalwork and fitting to add to these is really impossible for me to be able to do, so I just don't bother. I have been thinking about usining halving joints at the corners and adding corrigated roofing nails or coach bolts in the corners, but to date I have not tried this. who knows in time this might be the next thing.

[GeoSpectrum]

The chalk paint with whiting works for me. I find it easy to sand and can produce a really good finish. Lots of dust though!

I’m about to experiment with a spray based filler when the cans arrive....

[vintage frames]

Spray fillers are a good way to go. Only you have to stick with the nitro-cellulose medium. If you already have a spray facility, it might be a good idea to buy a separate spray gun to spray on nitro finishes. The white primers will fill up the grain to a gesso like finish. Spraying on a sanding sealer will give you a glass like varnish effect - you don't really need the gloss finishes.
You will need a vapour mask.

[Not your average framer]

I've never been much interest in using srap based fillers. I'm a bit concerned about the over spray drifting around in the air and not knowing where in is likely to settle . I susspect that smaller aerosol droplets might remain air bourne for quite a long time. Also I think that a brush applied primer is going to be much better controlled as it goes on and should produce a thick and more uniform coating.

've managed to avoid doing very much sanding, by smoothing the dried primer with my favorite solvent mix on a wad of kitchen tissue . Any primer that gets disolved mostly soaks into the kitchen tissue and gets thrown in to the bin, so less mess to worry about. I started using the solvent approach to save both time and effort, it's a very fast way of getting a smooth surface and I it is also very effective when distressing multi colour layered finishes and looks very natural.

[vintage frames]

You're quite right about overspray. Spray finishes are only really relevant to production processes. You need a dedicated spray booth.
I like your ideas of rubbing through with solvents though.

[Not your average framer]

I must admit to being quite a big fan of Craig and Rose 1829 Chalmy emulsion and this seems to stick quite well to bare wood. Ufortunately, I am not allowed to drive at the moment and my wife is not keen on taking the car out to get any paint at the moment, so nothing much is happening right now. 1829 chalky emilsion brushes out really smooth and is not difficult to smooth down afterwards.

Although I like to smooth it down using solvents on a piece of kitchen tissue it also smooth down well with a wet pan shiner as well. I like the ones that are foam backed, being wet they tend to retain the sanded off dust inside the pan shiner and can be washed out under the tap with running water, so that all the dust get washed away. I find this quite quick and easy.

I do like mixing the chalky emulsion with a thick acrylic paint of much the same colour. It gives me the advantage of the durability of the acrylic paint, but with a really nice silky matt finish, plus the chalky emulsion is cheaper than the acrylic paint. So it makes the acrylic paint go further foe less money, it also flows better and dries quite well with a heat gun without all usual problems of acrylic paint blistering to easily with the heat.

[GeoSpectrum]

I have a spray shed dedicated to the task.

[vintage frames]

I'll be interested to hear how you get on with the spray-can primers. I've only ever used a spray gun to apply that sort of primer and I've forgotten whether the finish needed to be smoothed down a bit afterwards. The finish certainly fills up the grain but wether it can hold on to a top coat of water based paint I don't know. But I suppose you'll soon find out.

[prospero]

https://www.diy.com/departments/multi-r ... 226_BQ.prd

This stuff is the biz. Looks as if they are discoing it If they still have it - grab it.


I've got about 8 tubs left.

[Not your average framer]

I have heard about some framers using the large aerosol cans of car spray primer, so I guess it must work o.k. I guess it may also depend up on what type of wood you are working with. I use quite a bit of pine and pine is not a great type of wood to produce a flawless finish, but for the sort of finishes that I want it's not too bad. Antique and distressed finishes, don't look too bad on pine. There can be a bit of wastage with some pine mouldings as I like to avoid using the knots. Making pine with knots in it look classy, for me is usually a waste of time, so the knots go in the bin and the short bits in between knots that are closer together, get turned into smaller ready made frames. Some bits are just too short and there's not much that can be done to find a worthwhile use for these.

I know than pine is not regarded as being all that classy, but with a finish that hides the natural look of pine quite well, the result is really nice and works well. I am not a particularly big fan of Obeche because it is a longer process to fill and finish it to get a really great finish, but many of the really useful and classic profiles are only available is Obeche. As a result I still end up using Obeche, but it not something that I like to work with, more than I need to. A base coat of chalky emusion generally fills all those little flecks, but it almost always needs a decent bit of sanding to really bring it up to scatch. As you may have already worked out, I don't much enjoy to much sanding, so working out ways of avoiding doing it, tends to influence what I do and how I do it.

Since my stroke, I have been using less Obeche and some of the less useful Obeche mouldings, have been cut up into slips and spacers, just as a way of clearing space and making use of them. Like it, or not, I was already slowing down quite a bit, before my stroke and the necessities of working to get a worthwhile return for the hours of work that I put in, means that I no longer do everything that I once did. I am actually doing much better, that seems to be likely, considering all that has happened to me in recent years. I have certain favorite finishes and produce various variations on these main finishes, many of these finishes can look quite different, but there all based on favorite techniques that I've been doing so long that, I can almost do them in my sleep.

One of my favorite finishes is done on a wider tulipwood moulding, which is very easy because the wood is such a clean and smooth surface to start with, the base coat is a mixture of red oxide acrylic paint, mixed with a very similar coloured chalky emulsion, with a touch of brown and black added to reduce the contrast between that and the top coat which is a black acrylic mixed with a black chalky emulsion with a touch of brown added to slightly soften the black and it's gently distressed on the front edges and finished off with a coat of dead flat (matte) acrylic wax finished varnish and lightly waxed, together with a very weak and thnned down warm grey mixed it to the wax. Much of the wax and the warm grey is wipped away, just leaving a hint. It looks stunning and sells really well, it's a copy of an Italian hand finished moulding and is labelled in the shop window as in the tradition of classic Italian hand finished frames. It's priced to impress and you have to really want it, to pay want I'm asking for it.