What's next equipment wise?

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walnutboy
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What's next equipment wise?

Post by walnutboy »

Hi everyone,
I usually just hang around the forum and try and take some inspiration and knowledge from all you more experienced framers, but I'm now looking for a little advice on what to upgrade next.
I'm a little garage business that is stretching the limits of my garage space and have to keep moving my tools and equipment around depending on what part of the framing I'm doing. This is the equipment I have at present:
Morso F mitre cutter (imperial, but adapted by me to allow me to use metric)
C&H advantage pro mount cutter
Alpha 1m underpinner
Plus all the usual bits and bobs like framing gun, pen type glass cutter, and other small tools.

It's mainly the large items I'm looking at upgrading (I'd love to move to a proper workshop but simply don't have the turnover at present to be able to afford it), but have to bear in mind I don't have a lot of spare space - I'd basically have to do a 'one in, one out' to be able to get anything extra in.

Thanks in advance.
Chris
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Gesso&Bole
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Re: What's next equipment wise?

Post by Gesso&Bole »

I would suggest that the biggest 'game-changer' for you in a small workspace would be a wall mounted cutter - a system 4000/excalibur/fletcher. Not only does this massively speed up cutting boards and glass, it also frees up your bench space.
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Re: What's next equipment wise?

Post by Not your average framer »

What you already have is good quality equipment and is probably reasonably adequate for your needs at this stage. If you are thinking about replacing any of the equipment that you have already mentioned at this stage, I would advise against it until your getting busy enough to both need it and justify the additional expense. We are at present not very far in to a possibly slower economic environment and with hindsight you may regret rushing to spend money on upgrading your existing set up, when you could be adding something else, which is lacking in your present set up and would have possitive advantages in contributing to you overall productivity and therefore also your potential profitability.

Maybe a good wall mounted flat materials cutter at a reasonable and nicely affordable second hand price, would help you to conserve your finances and add considerably to your working capacity and overall ability to work both accurately and at a speed which increases your potential rate of pay per hour for your labour, because you will then be able to be more productive with your time. All of us are likely to experience a difficult trading environment in the immediate future and perhaps beyond this period to at least some extent, so avoiding spending money just because of the urge to buy something, is an issue to consider very carefully.

How able are you to undertake your own basic equipment maintenace and setting up / calibration? If you are reasonably mechanically adept and competent then you will cope quite well with buying and maintaining decent second hand equipment. Maybe a second hand Keencut system 4000, in decent condition at an advantageous price, would be a good next move. There are plenty such machines around as second hand and they provide useful extra capability, without occupying excessive space when operating from a garage. Don't just rush out and buy one, because I make a good argement for doing so, take a bit of time to think it over and also check that you have the space to fit it in your garage without adversely affecting your ability to work efficiently and effectively.

There's real shortage of Keencut System 4000 machines around, so there's no need to be in a hurry to get the first one that comes along. You also need to be aware that really cold glass will wreck your glass cutting wheel in no time, glass need to be ready to cut, when the temperature is above 10 degrees centigrade, or perferably even more. This will also apply to cutting glass with a hand held glass cutter as well, so give this some serious consideration. Glass waste is another issue to carefully consider. I often will start using another sheet of glass to avoid using an existing piece of glass, but leave too large an off cut which is not always going to be of an usable combination of size and shape. I am well practiced at this and I make up plenty of affordable & saleable ready made frames, which enable me to sell most of my waste, rather than having to pay money to have it removed.

However you look at it, this is a good time for small businesses to be working smart to be saving money and operating with ease, simplicity and good speed and efficiency. We are in a recession and cashflow is now what everything is going to be about. I am seriously looking at setting up an Etsy account to sell nice looking rustic items made from my left over scraps. Getting worthwhile sales prices for things made from recycled materials is not about aiming to be cheap, but it's about offering something so special that it commands a really special price tag. Small ticket sales are no use at all in a environment of low volume sales. The traditional business model of pile 'em high and sell 'em cheap is disasterous in a recession. Don't even think about it, it's deadly!
Mark Lacey

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Re: What's next equipment wise?

Post by Keith Hewitt »

Maybe a second hand Keencut system 4000, in decent condition at an advantageous price, would be a good next move. There are plenty such machines around as second hand

There's real shortage of Keencut System 4000 machines around,

Mark,

I'm confused :?: easy at my great age :giggle:
But which is it ?

plenty or real shortage :?:
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Re: What's next equipment wise?

Post by rubyred25 »

Hi Chris,

I'm relatively newbie to framing 1 1/2yr in working from my home workshop. I'm also upgrading my framing equipment as I go along, I earn abit then look around to see how and which equipment will make my framing life easier and more efficient.
I can highly recommend what others have mentioned that your next purchase should be a glass wall cutter - I bought a second hand keencut 4000 just before christmas and cannot believe how efficient it is - its amazing and stress free, it saves me both time and effort plus my worktable can now be dedicated to just the job in hand. Wished I had it earlier

Best wishes debbie
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Re: What's next equipment wise?

Post by Not your average framer »

Hi Keith

Do you look at the wants and sales section of this forum? There's load of Keencut Systems 4000 cutters, come up on a very regular basis, many older framers are calling it quits and selling up. Then there's others who are upgrading, because some people are selling up and getting rid of more desireable models of equipment and the equipment being replaced with something more desireable, is now being sold off to make room for the newer equipment item.

It's a great time to buy good, older equipment at really helpful prices.
Mark Lacey

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Re: What's next equipment wise?

Post by Keith Hewitt »

Mark,
I have to confess I have never looked at the Adverts/Sales/Wants section

I dont have anything to sell
I dont need to buy anything
But you haven't answered my question
System 4000 --- are there plenty or a real shortage :?:
Which is it ?
Keith Hewitt
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Re: What's next equipment wise?

Post by Not your average framer »

They keep coming along, but people keep snaping them up too, so take your pick. I like to think that there's plenty of them, particularly if you don't mind looking. I probably worth looking until one turns up reasonably nearby, if anyone is looking for one, so that the travellling distance is reasonable. James AKA jaybee173 is often flaging up any that come up of ebay in thewants and sales section, so he keeps everybody in the know about lots of useful stuff that comes up at a good price.
Mark Lacey

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Re: What's next equipment wise?

Post by prospero »

I'd second the wall-mounted cutter. :clap:

The only other biggie to consider is a vacuum press, but.....

They are big in terms of the space they occupy.
They are expensive.
They are very HEAVY.

Depending on the type of framing you typically do you made not get a great deal of use from one. :roll:
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Re: What's next equipment wise?

Post by pramsay13 »

I've been framing for almost 10 years and the only extra equipment I have than you is a JetMounter JM26 to stick down photographs and cheap posters.
My workshop is 5m x 3m so quite compact but this machine sits under my desk on a small table to I just use it under there.

I've considered a wallmounted cutter because at the minute I cut glass on the floor, but I can't see the wall mounted one being any quicker.

The only other piece of equipment I feel I miss out on is a computerised mountcutter, so if I had more space this is what I would go for.
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Re: What's next equipment wise?

Post by walnutboy »

Brilliant - thanks very much everyone. I've thought about a dry mounting machine for a while as one of the problems I have is people bringing cheap poster in and expecting them mounting without a wave or crease. They look most put out when I let them know it might come back with some 'waves'. I could probably fit this in the garage too.
The wall mounted cutter is a definite possibility too, although I would have to re-arrange the garage a little in order to fit it in. Maybe throw out the kids bikes or something?!
The point about the glass cutter needing to be around or above 10 deg is a good point too, although I don't have much choice in this at the moment. The garage isn't heated all the time and the insulation is somewhat lacking - moisture is sometimes an issue too, although without quite a substantial upgrade to the garage I can't see solution to this.
I'm going to keep an eye out on the adverts to see if I can pick something up locally.
Any other suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks
Chris
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Re: What's next equipment wise?

Post by Not your average framer »

I don't have a vacuum press, instead I have an old Ademco screw down mechanical press with an aluminium sheet which speads to load a little beyond the edges of the press to prevent any join marks at the edge of the press size. It's an 18" by 22" size press, but I can do more than double that size by feeding it through under the plate. There is also a very stiff HDF board which goes under anything being dry mounted. It works prefectly and I bought the press as needing to be rewired as the rubber insulated cables were perished an unsafe. It cost me £50 at the time, about 20 years ago.

Ademco screw down presses turn up for sale as second hand from time to time. They are not really greatly popular and generally sell for a very low price. They are a swine to move and transport, so you will need to work out how to move and transport one, if you get one and it will take move than one person to safely move it. Goodness knows what they weigh, but they are very heavy, hence they unpopularity when offered for sale. The heating element is 2.5 kilowatts and they take a little while to heat up to the full operating temperature. They also double as a very effective room heter on bitterly cold days and after heating will remain an effective source of heat for up to an hour after switching off.
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Re: What's next equipment wise?

Post by KeencutTechSupport »

Here are a few bullet points to consider about wall cutters:

The System 4000 is 20+ years old now and although blades are still available there are no spare parts left for them now.
The Excalibur 5000 has been around for 20 years or so now but is still current and all spare parts still available.
The full size 160cm version will fit under an 8' ceiling but the smaller 122cm is obviously shorter for low head room but there are not too many around.
A wall cutter not only saves space and inconvenience in a small workshop but increases safety
The space behind the machine can easily be used for storage of sheet materials.
The productivity gains are very good if the machine is set up correctly (cutting square and properly to size) and used in the correct way. By cutting all your sheet materials in one session, set the measuring stops to your x and y dimensions and cut your glass, backing board and mount board blank but instantly flipping from one cutting tool to another and alternating the measuring stops.

Hope some/all of that is a help.
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Re: What's next equipment wise?

Post by Not your average framer »

I used the System 4000 which I had for about 20 years, without access to an adequate supply of spares and it kept going and working well in spite of needing parts replaced and performed really well. I'm an ex-engineer and was happy to be fiddling about with it and readjusting the screws to take up the slack in the sliding bearings. It just kept on going!

When it was eventually mentioned on the forum that spare glass cutting wheels where no longer available from Keencut, I bought a Fletcher Terry 3100, but found out afterwards (again on this forum) that the glass cutting wheels were a standard part and still available from a company in Southampton. So I did not really need to replace my System 4000 at all and could have saved myself a lot of money. The parts of these machines that are subject to wear, still keep going, or there will be a workaround, so they are still good and still a great machine, usually available second hand at a very affordable price.
Mark Lacey

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