Hoffman dovetail key sizes

[Not your average framer]

I have long resisted buying a Hoffman rouler, perhaps for entirely sound reasons, but now that I am on the countdown to re-opening my shop and that I will need to operate not limited by the permanent remaining limitations following my stroke. I have decided that I actually need to buy a Hoffman router in order to overcome these limitations that are likely to be with me for the rest of my life. I cannot show how this Hoffman router will pay for it's initial cost over time, but I can afford the cost and buying it makes sense as something which will enable me to function at a fully productive level.

It is with this thought in mind that I am planning togo ahead and buy one, but first I need to ask a couple of questions from those who already use a Hoffman router. First, which size of dovetail keys do you use, or find most useful? I am hopefully not going to be swapping sizes of router bits, but ideally hope to operate with just the one size. Secondly do existing Hoffman users just rely up on the dovetail keys fora solid joint, or is it normal to use glue as well. None of the online demos appear to use glue at all, is this normally accepted practice?

I am still intending to go ahead and buy a Westool Domino jointer as well, mostly for joining frames and rear extension box sections seemlessly together and while I am at it a planner thicknesser and a workshop pillar drill are also on the list as well! I am thinking that these will also greatly enhance my productivity.

Many thanks in anticipation,
Mark.

[Justintime]

Definitely use glue!!! The way my router bit is set up, with a digital depth guage exactly to the specified depth I am still able to make small adjustments to the join. I occassionally have to clamp it too if its a tricky moulding. Bear in mind that mine is an old MU2, so probably not as fine tuned these days as yours will be.
Favourite key size really depends on the depth of the moulding that you're likely to be using.
Rather than carrying a box of each, I have a box of 18,30,40 and 60. They can be combined or cut down once fitted. If the depth is 20mm, an 18mm can be used with a punch and hammer to drive it fully in.
On request Hoffmann UK may send you a sample pack of all of the keys, which will help you decide.
I've bought whole boxes of keys direct from Hoffmann UK as the 1000 box cost is considerably less overall than buying from Lions by the 100.
An underpinner is far easier and quicker to use, but the Hoffmann is a game changer for Ash and Oak.
One of the Hoffmann youtube videos shows how to use playing cards or boxfile cards to support shaped mouldings, ready to insert keys. It's a useful trick.
If you're having any manual dexterity issues Mark, it may be worth having a go on someone's first before going for it. On flat faced moulding it's a doddle but with shaped moulding my left arm can feel like a human clamp...

[Tudor Rose]

We would agree with Justin - use glue!

Also agree with Justin, it is really worth trying before you buy. You are welcome to come over to look at our one, have a go with it and see how you manage. Not just with actually using it, but also to see how well you can move it around if you need to. It is a hefty piece of kit and knowing your shop/workshop size, I'm intrigued as to how it will work in the space with all the other equipment you have and plan to get in the coming months.

It would also be worth you seeing how easy you would find it to change the router bit size.

PM or call if you'd like to come over.

I did wonder what changed your mind on this though? Compared to where you were a short while ago when you had ruled it out.

[Not your average framer]

Hi Justin,

I seem to have got my words wrong, what I really meant was which size hoffman router bit will I need. Sorry about that!

Thanks,
Mark.

[Justintime]

W1 will suit most mouldings we use, the W0 is for very skinny mouldings. The exact recommendations will be in the online catalogue.
We have never needed to use bigger than W1.

[Not your average framer]

Hi jo,

I thought it made sense to use glue, but all the online demostrations online, don't seem to use glue, or even mention using glue. I just wondered if using glue was a problem. Also regarding deciding to get one after all, I am already using plenty of hard woods and intend to use more in the future. It will save me time making up stacked moulding frames, where I currently spend time sanding off the bulge in the corners to get a nice snug fit between mouldings and it is the perfect solution to making deep hard wood frame where stacking wedges of the underpinner is just not an option.

My right hand which was particularly affected by the stroke does not work like it used to and soon gets tired, I can use it, but it is not as strong as before, I can not lift it up as high as before and my grip is less strong. Undoing the bristol lock handles to reset the stops on the underpinner can be difficult at times. I still have a right handed brain, but my right hand is a bit of a let down so far. Strangely enough I'm still making some improvements now, although the medical staff at the hospital told me that I would not be making any improvement after so much time.

Thank you for your kind offer to try your machine, but I'm currently without transport and can barely walk either, so at the moment it jusy not practical. However I really apreciate the offer. I have been getting quite a lot of machinery and tools, as part of the way to do things which I find less easy since the stroke and as I have worked at it, I have adapted to everything so far, so I just going to go for it. Do you use your Hoffman router with Obeche, or Pine? I am thinking that I might consider it as a possibility.

Thanks and all the best,
Mark.

[Not your average framer]

Hi Justin,

That's great and very useful information. I'm hoping to be able to use it with a narrow rounded Oak moulding, so I will need the smaller size as well.

Thanks for your help,
Mark.

[Tudor Rose]

Hi Mark

I understand the difficulties with transport and mobility at the moment. I would say though that the offer stands. A Hoffman isn't cheap, we thought very long and hard before investing the money to buy one for ourselves and that was after we'd had a chance at WCAF to get very hands on with various machines and speak with the sales team. Against the cost of the machine, the cost of a taxi here and back to try it out would be good value for money. Have a think on it and let me know if you want to pop over. You could bring some of the mouldings you are thinking of using and we could try it out to see if it will do exactly what you are hoping (ie with your stacking plans etc). Seeing it in action is well worth it and as I mentioned before, it is a heavy piece of kit and an awkward size/shape, so worth seeing how easy it will be for you to move it around your other kit. Happy to block out part of the day to spend time on it.

I don't think they use glue in the demos because it looks messier on screen, nothing more than that.

We don't regularly use it with obeche or pine, but we have done and no reason why you can't.

[GeoSpectrum]

I used to use w2 but switched to w1 for use on some particular moulding and now only use W1.

And I always use glue.

[GeoSpectrum]

I used to use w2 but switched to w1 for use on some particular moulding and now only use W1.

And I always use glue.

[Not your average framer]

Hi Jo,

Thanks very much for your kind offer, but I'm o.k. right now and too much going on right now getting sorted. I am also busy re-inventing quite a lot of my hand finished moulding samples and range. Using the band saw is becoming a large part of this and I'm doing a lot of things that I have not been able to do previously. Band saws are extremely fast cutting Pine, or Obeche and I have been making some cheap and boring looking old fashioned mouldings look like they came from the original Art Deco era of between the wars and also look very much "designer" looking at the same time. Many of my older stock moulding which I picked up cheap and are just sitting around doing nothing often have slopes, or curves. Some these look more interesting when you cut 2mm, or 3mm out of a slope, or curve in just the right place and join them together after removing the slice out of the middle and you've got an added vertical transision. Alternatively you can take a slice out of the middle, flatten off the cuvred end and fit it back where it came from and you got an interesting flat and shaddow line.

I've got regular customers for anything which looks like Art Deco and if it's a moulding that easily adapts in to something which really shouts Art Deco, I have no trouble finding an up market customer wanting to buy it at a very good price. Quite a lot of the modern mouldings are very much the wrong shape for this, but a lot of my older unwanted stuff which you just can't even give away look just right. Art Deco needs a bit of something vintage about it to really look right. I only found this out quite recently and by accident. Quite honestly, making stuff like this is also the reason why I want a Westool domino jointer. Hidden fixings is the name of the game, when you want to make trendy reproduction collectible stuff. besides framing I get asked to repair old things, which people need sorted out to sell and I've picked up a bit of know how along the way. If I can hid some Hoffman router bow ties inside some basic display cabinets, or display boxes it helps me to make these for customers at a price they will go for. Lots of people come to me, because they know that I do lots of things that nobody else wants to do.

I think that the Hoffman router and the Westool Domino will enable me to carry on doing all sorts of different stuff, where I don't need to compete with anyone else. Not being in perfect health, competing against competitor, who are healthier, probably younger, and willing to beat my prices does not help me. Unfortunately I am slower now I've had a stroke, so a few pieces of the right kit will help to give me a little more speed (at least that's the plan).

All the best,
Mark.