can anyone help with small shadow box frames...supplier needed.

[daveym]

I've recently purchased some sample shadow box frames from a couple of retailers to compare. I will be selling my sculptures within these frames and was anticipating long term regular order but am quite disapointed with the overall workmanship.

I was looking for a reasonably priced frame but more importantly that was always in stock, so found a couple of decent high street branded frames that fit the depth of my sculpture perfectly. Unfortunately I find the frames very hit and miss. The first 4 frames I've pulled out the box all have defects. Whilst minor to some they are noticeable to me. They are also a faux type of wood appearance with a smooth laminate type surface that seems to not meet perfectly at the joins. There are light scratches and scuffs to places so all in all not overly impressed. I there fore am thinking about selling these as seconds or just offering 2 types of frame for each sculpture I sell.

My sculptures fit perfectly into the depth of the frames (the spacers measure a depth of 15mm). I'm not to concerned about the actual depth of the frame overall or thickness of the wood but the internal depth of spacers must remain 15mm. Ideally looking for just a nice contemporary smooth black wood. The current frames I have purchased are 3cm deep overall.

I am looking for 2 x sizes. The first being 10 x 10cm and the 2nd being 18 x 18cm.

If anyone can help or recommend anywhere that might already have similar shadow box frames in stock or alternatively I'd be happy to use a framer on here providing it is something that could supply on a regular basis.

I can give further details within messages.

thanks

[Not your average framer]

It might be more helpful to you to buy standard depth frames and fit your own box section inside the back of the frames. That is of course assuming that you are able to make you own box section to fit in to the back of these frames. It is an unfortunate fact that ordinary framers can not make frames for prices whch can get anywhere near the prices of the cheap imported frames which places like IKEA, or the Range and there's not much you can do about that.

I don't know how many such box frames you will need over a period of time, but if it's enough to justify the cost of mitre block and a small hand saw, maybe you might consider making your own frames instead, but it takes a bit of skill and careful marking out to get a the sides to the right size. Any not quite perfect joints can be filled and sanded, then the finish frames can be suitably painted, or stained. There are some who do this, but it's not something which suits everyone.

[Not your average framer]

Some framers make cheap frames from left over scraps, if you can find such a framer near to you and he, or she sometimes has suitable box frame moulding scraps you may be able to get them made to the right sizes for you requirements, if the prices are going to be right for you. Unfortunately most busy main street framers are likely to be too busy to be making frames from scraps, so you will need to find someone who is less busy and has time to make frames from left over scraps. It's mostly old timers who do stuff like this these days and they are not always easy to find!

[Not your average framer]

Since you are looking for a supplier and since one of you best chances might be to find a less busy framer,who might be interested in producing a batch of the sizes which you use, perhaps it would be helpful to indicate acceptable batch sizes and the maximum acceptable prices, just to see if any less busy framers are interested. You can probably save a little money, by collecting a batch youself if the distance is reasonable and avoiding any packaging and delivery costs, or also having such frames supplied in bare wood, which you can paint, or stain yourself. It's a bit of a long shot, but you never know someone might be interested in being your supplier, at prices which might interest you.

[Not your average framer]

You can buy some 10cm x 10cm deep frames for £1.50, but there's no way that these are made by human beings at this sort of price, there are produced on a robot production line and there's no one there to check them for quality, the even get stacked and boxed by a machine. Normal framers can't even buy the materials for that much and postage and packaging for such a frame would probably be twice that much, or even more! Realistically the labour cost is going to greatly exceed the cost of materials and very often producing perfect corners on such small frames can be a bit fiddley, to say the least!

Expecting to buy any frame at such a low price, without getting something of such poor quality, is just not realistic at all. I've been framing for at least 20 years and you could not get any frame made for that price even 20 years ago, even though materials might have been cheaper in those days. Sadly, people have come in to my shop wanting to get frames produced for totally un-workable prices, when the cheap frames that they had been relying on to produce whatever was earning them a living has become no longer available. I would like to help, but it's just impossible.

What is needed is to be producing something which will remain sustainable, well in to the future and that means being both realistic about what things need to cost and being realistic about what is a worthwhile profit for themselves. I'm guessing that a lot more people who are producing items to frame as cheaply as possible, might be doing the smart thing to look at making their own basic frames and there are ways of doing this. One of these is to buy the mouldings, cut them a little over size and get a local framer to cut them to size on his Morso for a small charge and then glue the frames to size yourself.

It makes more sense than most people realise. There is at least one framer on this forum who supplies ready cut glass and backing boards to artists, so needing equipment to cut glass and backing boards is something which can be avoided. If you can manage to place large enough orders, it is even possible to get such supplies in quantity as well. If you are completely dependant up on whether your local cheap shop has what you want in stock at the time when you need it, how does that make for a stable sales income? I am suggesting that this is something, which is good to think about!

[Not your average framer]

To put this in perspective making a small batch of the smaller frames in bare un-painted wood, might work out at a unit cost of about £6 and then you would need to paint the frames your self. If the frames were to be made from a competitively priced factory finished moulding, you might be looking at twice the earlier amount. There's no really much of a cost saving in really small frames produced by most local framers, as the labour cost is very likely to be greater than the material cost on such small frames, so the reducing material cost on such small frames is largely insignificant.