Any thoughts about making frames with lap jointed corners.

[Not your average framer]

I've been thinking about producing some carpentry style lap jointed frames and was wondering how quick and easy this might be, while using some standard "off the shelp" not too expensive frame mouldings. If it's too slow and complicated, I don't think that I won't bother! I'm guessing that the sight edge lip will probably need to be quite deep, but perhaps not after all. I'm thinking that lap jointed frames might look a bit older and bit of a novelty as well. Hopefully also something that might sell at a premium price.

Maybe this is something which I can produce quite easily using a table saw sled, or it not perhaps on the band saw. I have one of those very accurate dado joint jigs, which I bought because I thought it would be useful, but it still unused and sitting it the box that it came in. I guess that it might be time to learn how to use it. I was thinking that the joint line might need to be within the sight edge lip, but perhaps not! I also have a sliding mitre saw, which has an adjustable depth stop screw for making trenching cuts, so maybe I've got some good possibilities.

I think that I will glue and drill and side pin these joints as it will give it that "old fashioned" hand made look! Any thoughts?

[GeoSpectrum]

Ben Nicholson framed some of his work with lap jointed frames. I’ve considered making replicas as there are a number artists working in his style where a replica frame may be of interest.

[Not your average framer]

Yes, that makes good sense! My thinking was not quite along the same lines, but I was thinking about it being also of some interest to the "Interior design" market and hoping that it would sell well, because it is noticably different. Different can mean that it is often percieved as being worth a larger price. Maybe not always, but it can often be a deciding factor in being able to charge a bit more.

[Not your average framer]

It will probably be easiest for me to make the laps joints in the middle of the frame depth, which means that the cut in the sight edge will need to be a nice tight fit so that the is no gap. Not being a mitre joint, I am assuming that this will require a very high degree of precision. If I can manage to set up my sliding mitre saw acurrately enough, I am thinking that I should be able to set the first cut position by means of a small scraps of the same moulding against the side of the blade and then clamp a stop block onto the saw's fence. This should enable me to make the first cut in the correct position. The saw has a a spring loaded thumb screw to set the depth of cut for dado joints, lap joints and halving joins, the spring adds a bit if friction to stop the screw moving with the vibration created by the saw running, so again I can make a small wooden block to enable me to bring the blade down to rest on the top of this block to set the blade depth. After making the first cut, I should be able to chop away at the remaining area, which needs to be taken down to the same height.

I have considered gluing and doweling the corner joints, but this will almost certainly be adding more time to what is needed to produce these frames, so probably not a good idea. Using lap joints will be likely to increase the time taken to produce these frames anyway, so I better not do anything which adds more time as well. I have a Stanley framers vice, so I am thinking that I will glue, drill and pin the corners from both sides using long veneer pins, which will hopefully hold the corners tightly together while the glue is setting. I have already thought about the saw blade causing small spinters on the edge of the joints, so I am expecting to need to tape over the moulding before cutting it and very slightly chamfer the edge wie fine sandpaper, to get a really clean finish to the visible part of the joint line. Assuming that everything lines up really well and I am using my favorite mixture of thick chalky emulsion paint and thick acrlic paint, the joints should look just fine. I am not ruling out the possibility of pining the corners with a pneumatic 18 gauge nail gun and punch the nails below the surface, before hidding them with filler. I am thinking that this might be a useful idea for other, who already have the necessary equipment.

[Not your average framer]

While stil thinking this through, I realise that I still need to allow for cutting these lap joints to still close up the spaces left by the pre-machined rebates, so that means two different acurately cut and trenched cuts on the sliding mitre saw. This I am thinking is adding more time, which is also likely to be unavoidable, also I need to doing this on two ends of two of the lengths for the frame sides. However the others two lengths for the top and botton frame side, will only need one cut and a trenched cut on these pieces. Never the less it's still a little bit more time.

Because there will be a certain amount of set up time to do this, It will necessitate making these frames in batches to minimise the cost impact of the set up time. Fortunately the set up adjustments will be the same for different frame sizes, providing that I am using the same moulding for all frame sizes. This may not be completely convenient for me to do, if I also want to produce much smaller frame sizes as well, because much smaller frames often look much better with a smaller frame size and there may be cost benefits in producing much smaller frames from a cheaper and smaller moulding.

Needless to say that much smaller frames, will also need to sell at a lower price, but to still get a worthwhile profit margin, I need to save some costs somewhere and this will probably only be possible by using a smaller and cheaper moulding. Cost savings might actually be fairly minimal as well, so maybe not particularly helpful. These frames are in their own way intended to be a stylish "designer" look type thing and will have a bit of a hand crafted look, just as spined mitre joints in a popular "designer" look and therefore an item which I hope will sell at a premium price.

It also occurs to me, that I might also consider producing some lap jointed frames with lap jointed mouldings dividing them into two, or four separate frames all in one. This might be an interesting and different look, as well and won't be difficult to produce when using a stop block and my sliding mitre saw. I am already thinking about a deep box frame with, say four separate compartments separated the spacer mouldings and separate backing boards for each compartment. This will enable my too glaze each compartment with off-cuts and also use off-cuts for backing boards and mountboard rear compartment liners.

The compartment dividers can be mitred in all four corners, but the other joints can be halving joints. The having joints can be glued and pinned through from behind with my headless pinner gun, so quite quick and easy. I already have some relatively inexpensive mouldings and spacers in mind which would work well for this. The main frame would be mitred and joined conventionally to save both time and money. Being something somewhat different I'm assuming that it might create some useful customer interest and yet again, because it's different should sell for a good price.

[prospero]

I think you would have to invest in some serious woodworking kit to produce them economically. And get a huge workshop.
Doing them using hand tools might be enjoyable, but from a business perspective it's a no-go.

[Not your average framer]

Hi Peter,

I am thinking that I probably have already invested in enough of the right woodworking kit, to be able to do this and hopefully do it quite well. I've spent literally thousands on buying these machine tools and I have bought various measurement and set up aids as well. I think I am reasonable well set to do this. Added to that, I am an ex-engineer and I am well used to setting up machinery as a result. I need to be getting on with doing things and trying to make things happen.