Commercially produced strut backs

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Not your average framer
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Commercially produced strut backs

Post by Not your average framer »

I am not particularly impressed with the quality of most commercially produced strut backs, as many are only produced from 2mm, or 2.5mm thick MDF. I am thinking that this is a bit thin for use on some frames sizes as the strut are likely to bow over time under the weight of some larger frames. However I probably need to stock a few strut backs just too meet the needs of the customers who want strut backs, but what do I do for larger frames requiring strut backs? My intension Is to keep some strut backs in stock, just for any customers who require stut backs and to charge extra for these, when customer decide to have them. Strut backs on much larger frames are still going to be an unsolved problem. Also the still is a bit of a market for mirrors in oval frames with strut back and normal strut backs are not very suitable for oval mirrors. I used to buy and sell at one time and oval mirrors with strut backs in auctions, were always very popular and always sold with ease.

Very slightly changing the subject, dressing tables with mirrors have been out of fashion for a really long time these days, but there is still a good demand for mirrors which will stand up on a flat surface. Lagrer hinged to stand mirrors do still sell, but is the really classy ones which create the most interest. I have considered making some of these, but I am thinking that maintaining a worthwhile profit margin will not be easy. Oval frames are not all that helpful in terms of cost and free standing oval mirror need a couple of feet on the frame for stabilty. Making my own oval frames and stands is going to be my best way of making these and I have been giving the matter some thought. I can cut some oval templates using my oval mountcutter, but the frame would still need a bit of profiling and the apertrure would still need a rebate to be cut. I have several large secondhand sheets of 4mm mirror glass, but the strut back for an 18 inch by 12 inch mirror will need to be very strong and solid.

Has anyone done anything like this, or got any suggestions about how to go about this?
Thanks,
Mark.
Mark Lacey

“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer
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Steve N
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Re: Commercially produced strut backs

Post by Steve N »

I don't recommend using strutbacks on anything over A4, far too top heavy
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fusionframer
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Re: Commercially produced strut backs

Post by fusionframer »

Agree with Steve. For anything close or over A4 that needs to sit on furniture rather than hanging, i make a base.
20180926_142953.jpg
I cut an angled groove for the frame to sit in and provided the base goes back beyond the top of the frame, physics is on your side and it is completely stable.

The groove is cut slightly oversize and felt is glued in to protect the frame. I use these for double sided frames too as no fittings are required and it is simple to switch around.

Nick
www.fusionframing.co.uk

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Re: Commercially produced strut backs

Post by Not your average framer »

Hi Steve and Nick,

I am thinking along similar lines. Free standing mirrors work much better with a easel type of support fixed to the reverse side of the mirror and the easel needs to be produced to a much better design that just another version of a strut back. I am convinced that it is now necessary to produce display samples of such items, so that customers can see that we are able to make such items. It is of course natural to produce such items, only to order, but I think that if we con't produce and display such items that customers will never know that we can supply such things. I am fortunate to have some secondhand materials, mostly from dismantled better quality furniture originally produced from solid good quality real wood. I think that buying items such a factory produced oval frames, is likely to be prohibitively expensive, if we are needing to make a worhwhile profit margin, while being able to sell things at prices which will attract any realistic interest from potential customers.

Mirrors have sort of died a death as for many of us in recent years as a result of so much cheap rubbish in the cheaper shops. However, many of the cheaper shops are struggling to pay for their higher overheads and are no longer offering the same range of stock items, which I suspect is re-opening opportunities for us smaller businesses to step into the breach and retake some of our earlier traditional market back. I am seriously thanking about simple ways of making Oval guide mechanism for guiding a router to cut some fairly substantial bits of a nice hard wood top from a sideboard which was dismantled to make space when I moved into my new flat, with the idea of making oval frames. It is not particularly difficult to construct the easels using hidden dowels and butt joints, so I'm giving this some serious thought at present. This dismanted side board was a decent size and made fom a hardwood which might be something similar to a lighter shade of walnut. So I would look really nice quality.

I've already got all the woodworking machinery necessary to produce most items that I am ever likely to need to make, so this sounds like it might be a good move. Oh well, time will tell!
Mark Lacey

“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer
Not your average framer
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Re: Commercially produced strut backs

Post by Not your average framer »

I like the idea of an easel with front legs, a cross member near the top and a reasonable thickness MDF, or plywood rear strut hinged to the cross member, with whole thing screwed in place on the rear of the frame. It would be made to be solid strong and secure, without being excessively expensive and would look quite classy.
Mark Lacey

“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer
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prospero
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Re: Commercially produced strut backs

Post by prospero »

I have been pondering this issue for nearly 40 years and I not found a method that's exactly easy. If you want a reliable
easy to use product you have to cough up for good quality pre-made ones or spend time making your own, which is heavy
on labour time and not a little tedious.
People have been re-inventing strut backs for years and I've yet to see a 'Goldilocks' system.

I once made about 300 strut backs using MDF scraps. I rivetted on two of the commercially available 'bars'. One for each
orientation so the strut could be located each way. The biggest I did was 10x8. Made a template and jig so I could drill a
stack of about 6 at once. The I sat down and fixed them on with bifurcated rivets. 1200 of them. :o The front edge of my
Morso makes a good anvil. It was a case of put your brain in neutral. :?
For the strut I got a few of the pre-cut ones supplied (no longer) by Lion a cut them down as appropriate. I could have made
these but I would have to have banged in 600 more rivets and have to contrive a jig to cut them to achieve the flared shape.
Easier to cut them square but I think the flared shape is more attractive.
I had more stamina in those days. :lol:

This is still my go-to method for strut backs and I still make the occasional one.

Bigger the 10x8, I agree that a separate easel is the way to go.
Watch Out. There's A Humphrey About
Not your average framer
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Re: Commercially produced strut backs

Post by Not your average framer »

I don't usually get asked for too many strut backs and I don't mind using some of the cheap ones made from 2.5mm thick MDF, for smaller frame sizes. Unfortunately for larger frame sizes, I just don't think that they are sufficiently stronger and sturdy to adequately do the job. The hinges which I want to use I intend to be fixed with screws and as this will require 10mm long screws, therefore the pull out strut leg will quire possibly by 12mm thick MDF. I am still thinking this through, but I think that it may be preferable to have enough residual depth in the back of the frame to contain the strut leg when everything is folded flat. this might require deeper rebate frames to make this work.

As you can no doubt understand, there is a strong need to be able to produce these strut backs at an affordable price. I am still wondering what this price needs to be. Perhaps a good starting figure might be no more than £10 to the customer and this means as a worse case the the material cost for producing on of these does not want to be anymore than say £3, preferably less than than. Using shorter screws to enable using thinner board is likely not to be strong enough. I am still covinced how I would want to make this happen, but it needs to be fast to handfinish and to assember, or it's a non starter.
Mark Lacey

“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer
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prospero
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Re: Commercially produced strut backs

Post by prospero »

Someone posted this interesting selection of bygone efforts on FB. :lol:

strutbacks.jpg
Watch Out. There's A Humphrey About
Not your average framer
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Re: Commercially produced strut backs

Post by Not your average framer »

I've often thought about making my own strut backs, but finding a way of making them for a realistically worthwhile cost is always a big problem.
Mark Lacey

“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer
Not your average framer
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Re: Commercially produced strut backs

Post by Not your average framer »

Although I can order commercially producted strut backs for smaller frames, I am still woldering what to do about taller frames such as for mirrors. I am thinking that producing strut back mirrors, might have some useful potential, but limiting the time and costs of producing such items is still a key consideration. So far, I am thinking that it not to difficult to assemble an easel to screw in place onto the rear of a mirroe frames, but I am thinking that I would need a different sized jig for making different sized frames and easels.

There's often more expense involved in making the jig, that the item which is made using the jig and the sales volume for producing these mirrors is at best unknown and not likely to generate a particularly high sales volume. If I did not already have a reasonable quantity of large pieces of salvaged 4mm mirror glass, I would be considering this at all. After considering the necessity to restrict my material costs, I have decided that the top and bottom rails of the frame, will be used as the horizontal cross menbers, which will secure the other parts of the easel in place, without the cost of separate cross members as part of the easel.

The necessary pieces of wood to contruct the easel will need to be "off the shelf" stock sizes of pine wood from my local hardware shop and the strut leg is only going to be henged on two screws, (again for control of time and costs). I am almost certain that even using this lower cost method of making the easel stands, that this method will only be cost effective for larger frames and I will need to used cheaper factory made strut backs for smaller frames. As it is, I will still need to handfinish the easel parts to create an acceptable appearance.
Mark Lacey

“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer
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