Mismatched corners

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Lou42
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Mismatched corners

Post by Lou42 » Tue 10 May, 2022 12:40 pm

Hi, I'm having problems with the two pieces of my corners not lying flat, i.e. one sits slightly higher than the other. It doesn't happen with every corner on a frame, so the settings on my pinner are fine. I'm wondering whether this is a morso/technique problem (they sometimes don't sit flush even before I start pinning) or whether the wood is warped? Any suggestions very much welcome
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Steve N
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Re: Mismatched corners

Post by Steve N » Tue 10 May, 2022 1:04 pm

You can see if the moulding is warped, by placing each lenght of moulding on the right hand arm of the Morso and see if it rocks, if it does, then it's warped
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Re: Mismatched corners

Post by Gesso&Bole » Tue 10 May, 2022 1:17 pm

Nearly all lengths of moulding have a little bit of warp to them, but that shouldn't mean the corners won't go together properly.

It could be a cutting or a joining problem (or both).

Morso
Ensure that the base of the moulding is securely on the table. Hold it down securely with your fingers both sides of the guard. There should be no discernable wobble as the blade cuts through. If there is wobble, then adjust your rebate supports. If the moulding is warped then it probably won't sit flat on the Morso on its own but usually you can push it down flat.

Underpinner
I don't know what sort of underpinner you are using, but I suspect that you need a bit more downward pressure on the top. This should push both sides flush before the wedge is inserted. And if it's a manual underpinner without all the fancy clamps, you may need to physically twist the moulding with your hand as you are joining so that the face is flush before you insert the wedges. It is quite normal for 3 corners to go together perfectly, and then you have to battle the final one.
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Lou42
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Re: Mismatched corners

Post by Lou42 » Tue 10 May, 2022 2:41 pm

The pinner is a Cassese CS88, manual foot operated.
How do I increase the downward pressure? Is it to do with the distance from the presser to the moulding?

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Re: Mismatched corners

Post by Justintime » Tue 10 May, 2022 2:57 pm

Yes. I think cassese recommend 30mm max distance between the door. Closer will give more pressure.

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Re: Mismatched corners

Post by Lou42 » Tue 10 May, 2022 5:16 pm

Hmm, I normally have approx 10mm gap - any less and I can't see the join. Is there any other way of increasing the pressure?
It's usually more noticeable when doing wider mouldings, so I'm wondering if it is affected by using the spacer bar? Or the hard/soft presser triangle?

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Re: Mismatched corners

Post by Fruitini » Wed 11 May, 2022 4:52 am

If you can rule out any issues with your equipment then some mouldings you’ll just find aren’t a regular thickness all the way along the length. The milling/sawing process isn’t always perfect and you’ll only discover this at the time that you present the two pieces together at the underpinner. If you can prove this irregularity by measuring with a digital vernier caliper then I guess there is some comeback with the supplier that sold you the moulding. If it’s a barewood moulding then with some sanding you should be able to work out the step. With prefinished mouldings, on presenting the cut pieces together when joining, if it’s clear there is going to be an issue I usually introduce a little shim of paper or card of the corresponding thickness between the shallower piece of moulding and underpinner bed. This, with practice, will lift up the shallower piece and move the step to the underside of the join.

This is also a useful technique when you have moulding from two different batches that will sometimes not match up perfectly. I find the colourmount barrier card from Simons MB/2671 at 450 microns to be something we hold in stock that is usually close to being a suitable shim thickness.

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Re: Mismatched corners

Post by Not your average framer » Wed 11 May, 2022 8:33 am

It is not an unknown thing for moulding which are not of uniform thickness on both sides of the moulding to warp, twist, or distort after the moulding has the machined and one side finished. In bygone years some mouldings were machined to include stress releiving longituinal groove along the length of the moulding to resist these effects. In todays cost efficient times, this practice is much less common. Warped, twisted and ditorted mouldings can sometimes cause difficulties when producing stacked moulding frames as a distorted moulding nearly always does not fit well with the other nouldings around it. Sometimes a distorted moulding is easier to make use of when producing a number of smaller frames are produced, rather that one large one as the effects of that degree of distortion are often less pronounced over shorter lengths of moulding. Adding another piece of wood to the rear of some frames which have distorted after the customer has taken it home to their nice warm centrally heated home and pulling them flat with screws fixing the moulding and the piece of wood together also sometimes works, but results are not always a totally perfect result.

I sometimes have come out of my shop when a mouldings delivery is being unloaded by the courier to see the my bundle of mouldings has not been loaded into the van in a way that it will be transported safely. Sometimes it is not only not supported in a flat position, but there are also very heavy items on top of the mouldings bending the bundle out of shape. Some pine mouldings might have the occasional knot and the areas where knot are present can behave rather badly if they are transported in a stressed condition. I like to cut out the pieces of pine moulding which have the occasional knot to use for producing small "rustic pine frames" and since there are not many knots in many of the esentially not free lengths of the pine mouldings which I buy, I already find it difficult to produec enough of my "rustic pine frames" to satisfy the potential market for such frames. As a result getting areas on a moulding with a knot present is often not particulately helpful to me. Most of the pine mouldings, which I use are not sufficiently expensive and as a result, I don't as a rule expect my supplier to replace the odd damaged length of a pine moulding, as it is more bother than it's worth.
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Re: Mismatched corners

Post by vintage frames » Wed 11 May, 2022 8:41 am

Are you able to show a photo of what the corner looks like from the back?
That would help identify what is causing the problem.
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