Recommended Paint Spray Gun?

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Foresty_Forest
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Recommended Paint Spray Gun?

Post by Foresty_Forest »

Have been painting frames with Farrow & Ball. Which gives quite a good finish, but there's often one or two blips. I generally paint about a dozen frames at once, some quite large. Somebody suggested that I get a spray gun. I don't have a clue about them, any ideas what make and model I should look at?

Thanks
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Re: Recommended Paint Spray Gun?

Post by vintage frames »

Spraying frames is an excellent idea.
You need a compressor, one that has a receiver of at least 50ltr and is piston driven.
If you have that, then a deVilbiss gun is the best. Go to this site maybe -
https://www.spraygunshop.co.uk/

contact them and say you're just looking for a budget gun, gravity fed to spray water-based paint onto picture frames. Expect to pay between £50 and £120. That should be enough.
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Re: Recommended Paint Spray Gun?

Post by prospero »

Guns apart, if you are spraying on that scale you need a big area that is isolated from the rest of the workshop.
Overspray settles in drifts and goes a looooong way. I won't dwell on breathing masks... :roll:
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Re: Recommended Paint Spray Gun?

Post by Foresty_Forest »

Thanks

Do you think I'll be able to use the F&B? I'd intend to spray outdoors in the garden, does anyone know how long an air hose can be used?

If I could I'd keep the compressor in the garage and spray out in the garden - hopefully not annoying the neighbours with noise.
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Re: Recommended Paint Spray Gun?

Post by Not your average framer »

I'm no expert on this, but if you are planning to spray water based paint, it is not uncommon for many professionals to use good quality HVLP (high volume low pressure) spray guns. These don't require buying a large compressor because the have their own turbine. You really need some advice from someone who already has one and has the necessary experience and that's not me!
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Re: Recommended Paint Spray Gun?

Post by vintage frames »

Now you mention it, I used to spray out in the garden too. That was when I was spraying nitro-cellulose laquers, didn't have a spray booth and the fumes was actively harmful. The frames looked great but I hated having to do it. What I needed was not only a dedicated spray booth but some very effective extraction. Putting the price well up soon choked off demand.

However, spraying in the garden is all very well on a summer's day, but a breeze is going to play havoc with the operation. So you do need the shelter of a spray booth. Make one yourself using some sort of a lean-to tent arrangement, or like I do, an old chicken shed or such.
You can use as long an air hose as you like - makes no difference.

You should also buy a 'lazy-susan' from Ikea. Using that as a cradle to hold the frames means you can turn the frames around as you spray, instead of walking around to cover all the sides.
Spraying water based paints like F&B is a pretty harmless pursuit. Maybe use a face mask if things get uncomfortable. Most spray jobs don't last much longer than about 5 min.
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Re: Recommended Paint Spray Gun?

Post by Not your average framer »

I like to use rattle spray cans with in a large cardboard box there always a bit of over spray. I do any spraying in the back yard too! My big old cardboard box has a piece of wood inside and another piece on the bottom to clamp the bottom piece in to my Black and Decker workmate. Insects seem to be attracted afterwards by the paint fumes as sometimes get sprayed if they won't sho away. There are often red primer wasps flying around for weeks afterwards, yes it's good stuff and even stick to wasps.

I used to use plenty of cheap car shop red primer when I used to repair stuff to resell in the auctions, red primer sticks like crazy to polyester filler used to repair damaged wood on small furniture items and after it has dried, other finished stick to it really well. Red car body primer does not raise the grain on wooden furniture and it's cheap to buy!
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Re: Recommended Paint Spray Gun?

Post by Framerpicture »

We use a HVLP gun's and spray water based paints in to a dry back spray booth - The compressor we use is 150 ltrs which works reasonably hard on busy spraying days - We have a lot of flat racked drying space, which we find absolutely essential in the spraying process
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Re: Recommended Paint Spray Gun?

Post by Fruitini »

I am about to embark on a very similar project to start spray painting frames in our unused cellar so I am following this topic with interest. We are a F&B and Little Greene paint stockist alongside our picture framing offerings, so we have a sample pot open of pretty much every colour by both brands and can easily offer any colour desired. We do a LOT of hand-painted frames so the time-saving aspect of spraying is very appealing but I have misgivings about how easy it would be to switch between colours, and the paint wastage involved in this process. Any thoughts? Are you likely to run through a sample pots worth of paint for one frame? - as with a brush one sample pot can do many frames. Would the clean up process between each colour change negate the time saving that the spraying would save compared to hand painting?
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Re: Recommended Paint Spray Gun?

Post by vintage frames »

Good question. With a good standard spray gun, you can adjust the volume of paint being used against the pressure you have selected to best cover the frame - ie a Low set Pressure to deliver a High volume of paint, HVLP.
That's something you adjust to best suit the paint you're using. It only takes a second or two.
With the right setting I imagine you could make a sample pot stretch over several frames.
A spray gun tends to deliver a high volume of paint onto the surface in one go. That's why you only need one or maybe two coats.

When finished it's essential to clean out the spray gun. So, you pour back any unused paint and then fill the paint cup with hot water and maybe a squirt of washing up liquid. Run that through the gun to clear the nozzles and repeat with more clean water.

Once again this doesn't take any longer than a few minutes. There is a huge time advantage to spraying and the finish can often be much superior.
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Re: Recommended Paint Spray Gun?

Post by prospero »

I never actually followed this idea up, but I'll run though it.....

If you could get a the sort of gun with a reservoir beneath and the reservoir cans can be bought separately, it
occurred to me that you could keep different colours in extra cans and when you have finished remove them and
simply wrap clingfilm over the top. Also have a can with clean water in to flush out the gun. This would save a lot
of waste and allow switching paint colours very easy.

Sounds feasible. :D
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Re: Recommended Paint Spray Gun?

Post by fusionframer »

I use a spray gun mostly for kitchen cupboard doors, I have a Fuji spray system and have a homemade spray booth i set up when needed. Like vintage frames said, it is important to really clean the gun afterwards.

I also have an extractor and an air filter to keep dust out.

These were sprayed using the fuji sprayer.
20220615_161046.jpg
What i would say is spray systems are great if you have:

1. Lots to do of the same colour at the same time as cleaning is time consuming.

2. You have a dedicated area you can use for it.

3. You have some decent drying racks.

As an alternative, and i realise this will work better on flatter mouldings, a mini roller can be useful.

You will need the right type of roller and the best i have found are these:

https://www.wickes.co.uk/Mini-Gloss-Sho ... 0/p/607239

In the photo above, there were a lot of cupboard doors to paint (there are 5 more long ones to the right and i made a fitted cupboard behind where i took the photo with 4 doors and 4 drawers), so inevitably, one or 2 got knocked and i used these rollers and you couldn't tell the difference. You can develop an action where you can use them on curves too. Well worth keeping to hand in my opinion.

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Re: Recommended Paint Spray Gun?

Post by vintage frames »

Yes, that could work.
Instead of a gravity fed gun where the paint cup is held above the gun body, you can also choose a suction gun which holds the paint in a cannister below the gun. So you could simply swop the tin for a different colour after a quick clean out of the gun.

Or another idea would be to have a very flexible rubber hose floating out of each of several paint reservoirs laid on the floor, and attach to the gun suction pipe as required.

You would need to use a higher working pressure to achieve sufficient suction and that might not be the best for painting with - who knows?
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Re: Recommended Paint Spray Gun?

Post by vintage frames »

What a beautiful kitchen.

Can I ask what sort of paint you use, please.
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Re: Recommended Paint Spray Gun?

Post by fusionframer »

Thanks Dermot.The kitchen was finished 6 weeks ago and I have already got 6 new jobs as a result (not all kitchens) taking me well into next year, so there seems to be no slowing up of spending which is positive

The colours were from B&Q home range, but i get them mixed by an independent company (ryalls in Malmesbury). The paint was a leyland water based paint (eggshell) suitable for kitchens and bathrooms. They mix either with johnstones or leyland, but i find leyland sprays better for some reason.

They are primed using zinnser bin 1-2-3 which again sprays well.

I am currently making 32 windows using a linseed oil paint (Brouns & co). The timber is sepele so a normal primer would not work well. I have used a aluminium primer previously, but this is more traditional.

The first coat is a mixture of 50% paint, 35% raw linseed oil and 15% balsam turpentine also known as gum turpentine. It is not cheap though, 5 litres came to £320!

It will be the first time i have used linseed oil paint, so it will be interesting to see how it goes on.

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Re: Recommended Paint Spray Gun?

Post by vintage frames »

You've achieved a beautiful even finish on those doors. The reason I asked was to see if you felt confident using a water-based paint under such hard wearing conditions. I was just wondering how durable it would be.

I've grown suspicious of many of these 'friendly' paints as regards durability. I'm beginning to prefer a paint with some decent chemicals in the mix.
Last year I repainted my windows (wooden sash - of course) with an acrylic primer, 'modern' undercoat and proper oil gloss top coat. One year in and the paint is peeling.

There's been a lot of talk recently about linseed oil paints. But is that not just an oil-based paint? The linseed oil will harden as with the driers in the mix and the turpentine is just a solvent to keep it liquidly.
I'd imagine most of the money is in the strong pigment mix of the paint.
It's good to hear from a much in demand craftsman.
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Re: Recommended Paint Spray Gun?

Post by fusionframer »

I have been back to houses several years after using this paint on jobs and it has still been fresh so my experience is that it is good. Was your sash window a hardwood? The tannins in hardwoods will cause paint to peel off which is why i use an aluminium primer for hardwoods generally. It may not be that, but hardwoods do cause that problem. If they are softwood, i am unsure why you had that issue. It has not been my experience of water based paints.

The paint i have is definitely a linseed oil paint. They may do normal oil paints too. It will be interesting to see how it goes on.

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Re: Recommended Paint Spray Gun?

Post by Not your average framer »

Hi Nick,

Your mentioning of an aluminium primer is likely quite significant. As far as I know, tanin is is quite acidic and the aluminium being a metallic element has far as the atomic table is concerned, has an interesting connection as far as the history of oil paints are concerned. In the old days a lot of oil paints used lead to extend the longevity of the paints and this was very effective. Iron oxide is the basis for red oxide primers, also the are lead oxide primers, kinc oxide paints and titanium dioxide paints.

It's very interesting to notice that these are all oxide form of compounds of elements from the metallic elemants on the atomic table. I'm not complete sure of the theoretic benefits of this, but there does appear to be some significance to this. The modern day usage of chalk paints also may have a similar connection as chalk consists of calcium and calcium is also a metallic element as well. I am thinking that there is a probable advantage in having significant quantities of metallic elements in paint specifically in tems of resisting tanin and other acidic contamination.
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Re: Recommended Paint Spray Gun?

Post by Fruitini »

Hi Forest. Just wondering if you acted on your spray setup yet? We are a week into our spray adventure so I thought I'd share my experiences so far. On Dermot's advice I contacted www.spraygunshop.co.uk for advice and they were super helpful. Adam suggested what seems to be the perfect setup for us. We went with the Devilbiss Prolite S which wasn't cheap but the reviews are exceptional and ours will get a serious hammering! A 1mm fluid tip and RS1 air cap gives a small round spray pattern typically covering 10-60mm - ideal size for spray painting frames without too much wastage.

My main requirement was for a system that allows easy use of a wide range of F&B and Little Greene colours, making the most of a sample pot size worth of paint by wasting as little as possible and switching between colours easily. A 'disposable cup system' was suggested. The liner cups sit in a rigid beaker connected to the gun via an adaptor, and come with a filter lid and bung which allow the preparation of a full sample pots worth of paint (diluted about 3:1 with water seems to make the best mix). The cups come in a variety of sizes - 180ml works for us. Once you've finished with that colour, the cup and liner have a quick release fitting, a bung can be popped on top and stored until that colour is next required. A quick flush through with hot soapy water and you're good to go again - clean up in about a minute.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrs63LoqCPI

The process seems ideal for us! A promising start and very happy with the finish its giving. Now to perfect the technique and speed up!

Can anyone advise on the clean up. Is hot soapy water all I need to keep the gun happy?
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Re: Recommended Paint Spray Gun?

Post by fusionframer »

Fruitini - I wash my sprayer with soapy water and also then spray some water through just to clear it all through after as well.

I have had to get another sprayer a few weeks ago as my other one is on site spraying walls and ceilings. On a recommendation, i have gone with a 3m accuspray run off my compressor. Advantage of this is you buy disposable heads which makes cleanup a lot quicker (although i have cleaned and reused heads). You can buy different sized heads for different jobs. Liking it so far, so i reckon i will keep this as my regular and turbine system for site jobs.

Cheers

Nick
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