Double sided map - is this the correct way?

[WannabeFramer]

Hi

I have been asked to price up a job (I'm working on that bit), but can I check I would be using the correct method? I am going to make a small sample to practice in case I get the job.

It is an old (300 years!!!) map with text on the reverse. The customer would be hanging the frame on the wall as normal, but would like the reverse visible to look at occasionally. So it isn't a double sided frame, but will have a clear back. The shop they purchased the map from recommended they have it encapsulated. It is currently wrapped on some mountboard.

So from reading up, this is what I think should be done.

1. Encapsulate the map in Melinex (I already have this from my last job - yay!)
2 .Cut mounts for the front and reverse
3. Fix the encapsulated map between the two mounts
4. Frame the front as usual
5. Use a clear back instead of backing board.
6. Neaten the back with something other than brown tape

Does that sound OK? If so, I have more questions, so please bear with me....

1. They want double mounts. Would that cause any issues? I have seen an example on here with some cigarette cards so I assume not.

2. Is acrylic the best thing to use on the reverse? Does it need to be UV if it is against the wall most of the time - I assume yes given the age of the map? If so, is there a preferred UV acrylic? (I've been looking on Wessex)

3. Should I use glass on the front or can I use acrylic too? (I'm thinking of cost efficiency, but I have not needed to use acrylic yet so I will probably order it cut to size anyway)

4. Is conservation grade mount board OK, or should it be something more? They have picked a specific colour for the inner mount which I have just realised says non-conservation so I'm not sure what to do about that. But it wouldn't actually be touching the artwork, so does that matter if I can't find an equivalent?

5. Anything else I need to consider?

If you have got this far, thank you!

And finally, in terms of labour, as far as I can see the mounts and frame are fairly standard, it is only the encapsulation that would take extra, and handling very carefully.

Thank you for reading my rambles

[JFeig]

Let me refer to the KISS method again. You are looking for an easy method to assist your client.

The simplest method would be to take a photo of the verso side (back) and place a copy of that photo on the back of the frame package.

New methods are not done on clients work while you are learning the trade.


A more advanced method would be to cut an opening in the backing boards(mount [mat] boards) and the filler board. Place a covering over this window opening with a sheet of polyester film from the inside.

[WannabeFramer]

Thank you.

Apologies, I didn't mean to sound blaze and I definitely wouldn't be trying anything unless I was 100% confident. I have a couple of my own vintage documents I would like to present in a similar way (house deeds) so would be trying those out first before I agreed to anything.

I did suggest a scan of the reverse printed out as you describe as an option, but as they were keen for a way to see the original if possible, then I wanted to find a solution if possible, and I saw a couple of examples on The Grumbler which looked suitable and wanted some more opinions of the method. If there are any alternatives I will soak up the information.

My main concern is the age of the map and how colourfast it would be, even if just the front is framed. They were told by the shop that it wouldn't be an issue but it does worry me most.

[JFeig]

You are already on your way with a healthy respect for asking questions and looking a the whole project to begin with. The "what if's" can be the decision breakers.

[prospero]

I've done such things before using this method....

Do the encapsulation as you describe. Use two sheets of glass and tape the edges (P90+?) so as to make
a self-contained unit that can be handled. Then, find an outer moulding that will swallow the internal package
plus about 12mm. Add a gold slip. This will hide the tape and allow a greater tape area on the glass.
Then make a simple frame from PSE timber the same size as the slip.
You can get suitable thin mouldings from R&H. This serves as a retaining structure for the back and you can use
spring clips to hold it in place. These will bear on the wood bit and not the glass (paint it black if you like).
When it's all together it's easy to slacken the clips and remove the inner unit. Flip it, replace it and relocate the clips.

That all probably sounds very confusing but it's a good method.

I wouldn't use it on any thing very big though.

[Gesso&Bole]

[quote=WannabeFramer post_
My main concern is the age of the map and how colourfast it would be, even if just the front is framed. They were told by the shop that it wouldn't be an issue but it does worry me most.
[/quote]

This does not become your problem because you have framed it. Your responsibility is to clearly explain the options, and the pros and cons of each, and to offer your recommendation. If they don’t want to pay for museum glass or whatever write a disclaimer on the receipt/job ticket, and go for the best option possible. I certainly wouldnt lose sleep over it.

In terms of the original question, I agree with Prospero. Unless it is a huge map, where 2 sheets of glass will be very heavy.

My method is to smooth the edge of the glass with a diamond pad, tape with P90, assemble the frame with a subframe and screws, as in the example, and then trim any visible P90 with a scalpel. (I make my own subframe but you can buy it from most suppliers)

[WannabeFramer]

Thank you Prospero and Gesso & Bole.

That has given me a lot of inspiration and the confidence that I can do that. Working methodically, slowly and (very) carefully. I haven't given any prices yet other than 'not cheap', but that is tomorrow's admin. Regardless, I will make a prototype on my own documents so I can refine and add to my portfolio.

Gesso, your comment about explaining the pros/cons is really helpful as I am a born worrier, and even if know something is OK, I still find myself constantly going back and checking just in case. Not framing related, but I am a prolific DIY-er (financial constraints, not through choice), and have been gradually replacing our ancient central heating system. I find myself checking every soldered joint several times a day for a few day afterwards, not quite believing nothing leaks. I need to learn to stop apologising for myself and be confident in my choices.

Forgive my ramblings, it's been a long day with my 'other' day job

P.S. Gesso, I would love that frame on my wall!

[JKX]

To answer your main question, Yes - and well done too!

Your procedure (1-6) is spot on but there are a few things to note.

Over about A3 size, melinex can get quite wobbly/wavy, so the heaviest weight is best. When standing in front of the thing though, and maps are things you want to look at close-up, your own body is blocking any reflection, but if it's very wavy it can be quite annoying and distracting when just sitting down looking at the whole thing. How big is it anyway ... can you post a photo of each side?

When you apply your 4 strips of DS tape (which should not overlap at the corners) - any waviness trapped inside that "frame" of tape is permanent, so, once you have done that, see how it lies and if it's pretty good then use that as the front, as you may not be as lucky with the top piece.

When suspended between two mounts, the encapsulated art can act like a diaphragm and suck forward or back on to the glazing - but again, it may not and even if it does, it may not be a problem.

I'd use glass both sides unless weight was an issue. No, you would not need UV glass on the reverse, furthermore, you could add an extra backing, fitted with turnbuttons or something for quick and easy removal to view. That would give physical protection plus totally block any UV ..... which is practically zero anyway. If that backing is not a go-er then either acrylic or customer just needs to be careful, it's not that much different to hanging a plate on the wall.
Cord or wire will interfere with viewing the reverse, there is plenty of stuff you can use instead, like Z bars.

Regards conservation board, it doesn't really matter with encapsulation, and the chances are the backing and core of the board you have doubts about are fine, it's just the surface paper. As long as it's not the nasty stuff which goes brown, go for it. Having said that I never used to show any boards that were not conservation standard - it makes life simpler - e.g. this whole paragraph would not be required!

It's a pretty good conservation method you are detailing, as well as a good problem-solver. No adhesive comes in contact with artwork - you could even float mount it! You could also float mount the front but not the back - the mount(s) would have to be VERY close to the edge of the paper though and the tiniest movement, which is possible, may spoil the effect. If the cigarette card job you refer to is the one I think it is, they were all float mounted, but movement, at that size, is unlikely to impossible.

Good luck!

[WannabeFramer]

Thank you!!

[WannabeFramer]

Evening All

I am nearly done with this, but for the final furlong I am back to tap into your collective greatness once again. This may be a completely stupid question mind, but it is late so forgive me if so.....

The customer opted for a single-sided frame with a print out of the verso on the back, but with turn-buttons so they could take the back off if they ever wanted to see the original. I have encapsulated the map as-per Jim Miller, with a window mount on the reverse. (I'm rather pleased with it )

So I was about to put the backing board on when I had a random thought. Looking at this, is there any reason I couldn't use some styrene as a back instead? Tab and tape nicely and maybe go over the back of the moulding with some dark coloured wax?

Or is that just a silly idea? Would it be too flexible? I just happen to have some here and there is space in the rebate, and I thought it could give them their original wishes for both sides visible. But I also assume that would have been suggested if it was an option....

The image print out isn't done yet, so I have time.

Oh, I need to re-do the back mount as it is a little small so don't judge too closely.

[JKX]

I would say the deal has been done so don't come over as being indecisive, maybe .. or not - I'm not really sure.

I hate styrene but what you describe, more or less, would be fine with 3mm acrylic. I'd actually prefer glass over styrene, once hung it's less prone to trauma than the front really.

I've done this (with acrylic and glass) but have either not worrioed about cosmetics on the back, or done pretty much what you've described but covered the back of the frame AND the tape/points, with a backing with an aperture cut out of it to conceal both.

[WannabeFramer]

I gave this a bit more thought over the weekend and you are right John, I had already agreed with the customer what to do. They originally wanted double-sided but didn't want to pay the extra.

There isn't enough rebate for glass or acrylic now, I was going to put in a sub-frame if they went for it - but they didn't. The styrene would be a half-way house purely because I happen to have it. But rather than me doing a nice surprise, it could actually appear that I didn't know what I was talking about originally or was chancing my arm with a higher quote.

The scanning and photoshop work took a while, and I have already sent it to be printed, so I will carry on as planned. It is now ready to go other than waiting for the print to come back.

I must get better at the business-side!

Thanks all for listening to my ramblings with this one.

I do actually have a proper double-sided one to do next so I am looking forward to that, so this has been a good lesson.

[WannabeFramer]

Well as a final update, they were over the moon with the single, opening frame and the print on the back (which I scribed round the olde-worlde original outline rather than a straight line) and brought me round a bottle of rather nice wine as a thank you. So that made me happy.