Construction method of Glass box / case ?

[cubic framer]

To give your customer the confidence that you are giving the best value for money requires a knowledge that those in the framing industry have failed to embrace.

What knowledge have those in the framing industry failed to embrace

I have canvassed a lot of framers, since I retired in the hope that I could find someone I could recommend for the enquiries I still get about 3D framing. Yes, I can get UV acrylic bonded covers, but they look like every other display case that comes out of the display industry. A knowledge and understanding of the victorian/edwardian 3D framing might be a good starting place, the fact that there is no available text on the subject shows that 3D framing did not progress through the 20th century as the did the picture framing techniques.

The best 3D framers of the 19th century were taxidermist, but to be contemptuous of their work is foolish and does not give room for a creative and open minded approach to the craft of 3D framing. Also knowledge of their work will show that Domes were not the only solution and the preform market had its limitations.

If you take two matching pieces of glass 3mm preferably, and place them flat on a work surface, two edges touching, then tape them together with masking tape they will fold like a hinge, fold back 180 degrees so that the glass is back to back, press firmly back to back to create a crease, the hinge will work with the inside edges of the glass practically touching.
Bend the joint to 90 degrees, I call this a zero offset position for a zero offset joint. Zero because there is no gap between the inside edges, the joint will be formed by a triangular fillet of silicone bonding the two glass edges and a flat surface of silicone forming the hypotenuse. That’s the method, to execute the method you must develop a procedure.
Your procedure to create this joint should include arrassing the edges of the glass and taping the outer surface of the glass. Position the glass at the required angle, 90 degrees and inject silicone into the groove so that there is a slight excess, then place a strip of smooth release paper (test before to make sure that silicone does not bond) on the surface of the silicone and gently massage with a flat surface, such as spatula along the line of the joint until the edges of the glass can be seen against the release paper. Let set overnight and peel back the release paper and remove the masking tape, cut away the overspill of cured silicone, which does not stick to the masking tape.
If you think this joint is tidy enough then see if you can work out the procedure to do five panes, it is possible but I have not got the time to spell it out now. It is my intention to have the graphics and instructions to create several different types of covers suitable for framing footballs later this Autumn.

[cubic framer]

UV activated acrylic or silicone bonding agents are both available and have been for a number of years, but there are techniques that are simpler........

Could you give an example of these techniques that are simpler

UV activated acrylic butt joint for a glass cover works of by placing the edge of one pane of glass against the face of another pane, the adhesive has surface tension that is suitable for the particular circumstances and the capillary action between the two surfaces of glass positions the adhesive which is then cured by exposing to UV radiation.
There is also a form of clear silicone that can be cured with UV.

The cost of set up is probably out of the range of the average framer and the arassing and polishing of the edges of the glass further loads the cost against the framer, that it is why I believe that the framer should look at other methods that can produce a suitable product for the needs of the customer looking for the sort of display work offered by the transparent cover.

The simplest method of creating a cover and I believe most suitable for 2mm glass is using Brown Gummed Paper Tape (BGPT), antiques examples of this method survive today having served their purpose over 80-120 years, done well they look neat and professionally turned out, they can be made quickly without any curing time. BGPT was used in wartime for blast protection on glass.

Low modular silicone has the property that masking tape can be left till after curing which is not the case with high modular.

There are methods that are possible using mitre guillotine and underpinner that can provide quite suitable alternatives to the types of carcase case and semi-carcase that were the work of the cabinet maker 3D framer, there is no reason why acrylics or Perspex cannot be used in these, plastic covers using plastising glues can pose a H&S problem in small workshops.

There are techniques practised by those craftsmen who need glass/transparent covers to both market and protect their product but this tends to be within closed markets and are not recognised by the framing industry....

Once again can you give an example of these techniques practised that are not recognised?.

The Tiffany glass method and the use of decorative lead strip is popular in some areas of non-durable artwork.

The birds mouth and angle covered edges requiring a triple double mitred corner has never been explained properly, and these mouldings are no longer available in the form they once were. There are group of case makers who I have been told import the original type of moulding directly from the Philippines and share it amongst themselves, thus bye passing the framing suppliers.

[Dermot]

Maybe Les needs to go back to the drawing board, you are suggesting that he may have got all his research of how to process glass wrong. http://www.tudorglass.com.au/docs/GDCflyer.pdf

BTW can I ask you have you ever paid a visit to a major glass processing factory and had a look at what is involved in making glass display cases!!!

I many years ago the glass blower for the chemistry department of UCD (University College Dublin) (I worked in the laboratory supply) business did a little glass blowing training (tube glass) with me and I then went on to get some training in handling sheet glass at Dockerell in Dublin and was trained by people who had many hundreds of years training between them, have the little knowledge that I have of the glass industry it is unlikely that the average framer could have a successful glass processing/display case business unless they were to turn there business into an operation something likes Les’s business.

As I understand it other that some cheap products like fish tanks the glass display business has gone to polished edges and UV glues…..silicon adhesive for the glass industry is generally these days only used for inserting/sealing windows and some applications like large custom made fish tanks.

[prospero]

Anyone who wants some, PM me. No idea how much there is, but there's a lot.. It's dark brown. Some of if needs repolishing as it was previously stored in a barn.

[A Few More Words]

Thank you all for your inputs. It's interesting that some of this was debated a couple of years ago also.I have just ordered some special glass glue (UV Cured) , so next week I will set about putting one together with it . I'll report back on progress then.Thanks.

[Dermot]

You should also consider ordering your glass cut to size with polished edges.

First Glass Dublin or Careys Tipperary should be able to help.....

[A Few More Words]

I have since done some research on UV Glues for glass and came across an
Australian product called Nano470. (http://www.nano470.com.au) - here youll find some info
and links to a few Youtube clips on some of its applications, which are worth a
look. It appears that in the world of UV glues, this has a key advantage in
that you do'nt need any special UV lamps - as it cures in a few minutes with a
regular flourescent light tube. Thus any associated sight / skin exposure
dangers are avoided.

I had earlier tried constructing a glass box with silicone but found the finish
to be a diffucult process and of poor quality.In that case, I was joining the
glass edges - corner to corner leaving 2 exposed glass edges
(thickness of glass) forming a triangle to fill with silicone.

I received a bottle of Nano470 (construction / high viscosity) and set to work. It requires that the glass sides
are joined by a butt joint. I suceeded in making a few boxes and with the practice
and improving the techniques as I went, I was certainly getting an acceptable result.

The biggest issue is cutting the glass accurately enough so great care must be taken
at that. When you're cutting a glass sheet for a picture frame you will have
the luxury of a 2-3 mm clearance with the moulding - with this you have to be spot
on as this process requires only a thin film of glue in the butt joint and it will
not provide any "filling" properties.
Another issue is cleaning the glass after the joint has cured. I email nano470 on
this and they advised by return to use 000 grade steel wool - I ended up using
a syntecic kitchen scouring pad which worked fine. While the thin film of glue in the
joint sets solid , the overspill stays guey for much longer.

First attempt with Nano470

DSCF6214.JPG (139.7 KiB) Viewed 10054 times

Part of my interest in this is to use up regular 2mm glass offcuts, so where
possible I'll stick to that. It is generally recommended to use 3mm glass for
this purpose and I guess the thicker the glass the easier it would be to work
with. So for now I'm just using regular 2mm cut on fletcher wall cutter. Once
the box is completly assembled,rubbing over the corners / edges with glass pad
knock off any sharp edges and leaves a good finish.

Wall mounted frame with protruding box

DSCF6211.JPG (139.11 KiB) Viewed 10054 times

I also suceeded in assembly a glass box with lips (retained
by moulding rabbet) to give a regular wall mounted frame but with protruding
glass box (might be good alternate to shadow box for some items)

So, while the end result is not totally perfect, with practice it would certainly
improve and I believe would be very satisfactory for many framers.

Man United - team signed ball

DSCF6216.JPG (137.28 KiB) Viewed 10054 times

I will work a bit more on making some jigs and light holding set ups to assist in
speeding up the process and assist in getting it right first time. Youll see that they have
some magnetic holders etc also.

So, thanks for all your inputs and Ill give you another update down the road.

[Roboframer]

Love it when this happens - someone gets an idea, researches and then after trial and error posts the end results, which look great.

Imagine that with museum glass!

[framemaker]

These look great, and it is good to see the end results of a topic. Thanks for sharing

[realhotglass]

G'day all,
Been a while since I visited, just a tad time poor these last couple of years :/

Interesting this topic came up again.

Glass display cases (frameless or otherwise) aren't new, but there aren't many making them specifically for use in the picture framing industry.
It really is different to shopfitting type cabinet work and other types of assemblies.

There's certainly a market for displays like this for framers, some things just aren't as pretty on a wall.

A Few More Words, NICE WORK for your first attempts.
I wouldn't have the nerve to make cases from 2mm though, at least not on those larger football sizes !
A clamping system for thinner glass would be awkward, do you just use masking tape to hold in place to tack up ?

UV glue needs a good 'meaty' edge to ensure strength, and usually the airtightness of a flat polished edge finish.

Those Nano470 clamps are interesting, but again more for cabinet or heavier type applications.
Earth magnets are darn handy, and the basic acrylic bits and pieces could be knocked up fairly easily.

First I've seen of the Nano470 products, did you notice they are in the UK and US (contact page) ?
You might be able to source it locally.
The glue they supply might cure on shortwave, as standard fluros emit more of that range.

I find the longwave glues cure in around 4 - 5 seconds, but it can vary on glue types (glass to glass, metal to glass, and others for acrylics).

Beers.

[A Few More Words]

Thanks for your comments.
Les you have obviously done a lot of this type of work over the years. I agree with you on the difficulty with 2 mm glass but then ignorance is bliss!! Working with thicker glass will be a breeze after this !
I actually managed to source the Nano470 Glue here in ireland from a company called ECT Adhesive solutions.

[/attachment]

The photo shows a couple of stands I knocked up which allowed the glass sheets to lie at 90degrees while I placed the strip light over the join (the light rested on the moulding lip/rebbet thus keeping the light a few mm off the glass) This arrangement was satisfaftory for the larger box but didnt work well for the smaller ones.

I plan on getting some earth magnets and making some jigs[attachment=0]Image069_edited.jpg

[realhotglass]

AFMW, you framers certainly are ingenious at times.
A couple of simple braced corners to hold glass in place, brilliant

Feel free to email anytime and we can 'talk' of our experiences.

[realhotglass]

Sorry, meant to add from (I think) a comment by Robo.

Do make a couple of small ones in Museum glass offcuts or similar.
I have been dying to do this myself with some 4mm Amiran, but I need to purchase too much of the darn stuff to make that leap ! (Think $$$$$)

Amiran is a Schott optically coated anti reflective glass.
I bought in a number of packs of the 2mm Mirogard Plus, same specs (for wifes art and the odd framer cut to size), very nice glass, but I won't make cases in less than 3mm with my methods.

Note . . . I did try a case with Mirogard offcuts once, but it was not up to standard / safety, so I abandoned that at the time.
Maybe one day I'll get that 4mm, or try the 2mm again.

You would have to be very careful with glue, as even if it doesn't affect the braodband layer coatings on such glass (or TV Museums UV coating), it would certainly be a pain to make less obvious with those coated glass surfaces, they way any sort of excess glue would smear even looking at it.

[framer_ni]

Reference the construction of boxes, can anyone inform me of where to source the right lead tape? As I am at a loose end?

Many Thanks

[A3DFramer]

Lead Strip with an adhesive backing, which is used for faux leaded windows is available through the glazing trade. The most common method of making a glass cover using this type of edging strip is a silicone adhesive bonded case, the last time I saw some actually made was by Red Kite Glass, Newtown.
http://redkitemanufacturingpowys.co.uk/
This was a few years ago, they told me that the did not expect to continue making the cases for the client much longer. They may be able to help. I helped a pub landlord fit out a display case and he bought the same tape quite easily from the local glazing trade.

There is a less well known method of using lead strip over an offset joint which only uses one strip per corner.

The tape, which might be confused for lead, is copper with self adhesive back. The reason it might be confused is because it is used with solder. The covers are made along the principles of Tiffany Glassware, this method is only really suitable for 2mm glass as any thicker soaks up the solder so that it cost too much.

Red Kite made there covers in 4mm glass and used a system of gluing similar to a method described by Pete Bingham in Picture Business published as a letter some years ago,

Anyway if you google copper tape and tiffany glass maybe you will come up with a supplier for these. I know someone who used this method of case making for many years and his supplier was an old established glass company in Liverpool but forget the name.

I started to research methods of case making, got to over 35 methods that could be used to frame 3D objects but I am not sure the effort of publishing them is worth while, might change my mind if there is any real interest.

If it is the actual lead strip you are thinking of using, a common flaw is not trapping or anchoring the ends, cases that have been around for a few decades seem to unravel, this may be due to usage or that framers who learn to make covers don't think about the base enough.

[framer_ni]

Could you provide any suppliers which would stock the lead tape required for the strip, I have looked everywhere and even ordered a few samples, I got one from Decra Led but it seamed to be too thick to mould for the required use.

Many Thanks

[realhotglass]

Wow, this thread revived again
Good, can show you all a couple of display cases made from 4.38mm Artglass UV

Dermots link to an pld flyer on the last page is obsolete, best now to go to the glass display cases page here http://www.tudorglass.com.au/products/g ... cases.html
See the pics a couple down, starts with an empty case (artglass) then the second shows that with ballerina statue inside . . . following pics show footy cases made in 6.38mm lam, and Artglass Protect 4.38mm lam, with bubble wrap in front easy to see the benefits of almost no reflection.

Also note the much less visible edge in thickness and a cleaner / whiter edge on the Protect.

Other case pics on the gallery page.

[A3DFramer]

Never seen a case of this style made with lead folded around the edge of a butt joint.

The method used by the majority of case makers (using this technique) is to use 2 strips and then merge the lead together with a suitable moulding tool. I used a bright steel round bar and just massaged the corners of the lead strips till they come together.

[framer_ni]

Thank you for getting back to me so quickly, we have a glass case in our shop and I have sourced double sided lead tape, however it just is too thick and I am having difficulty finding the right type. Thank you again

[kashif86]

Nice explanation @cubic_framer, Keep it up!