matt black reverse profile moulding

[Bill the framer]

This is my first post on the forum but have been reading it for some time so I am hopeful that someone may be able to help? I have an order for 3 and 7 engravings, the customer has requested 75 and 50 mm reverse matt black moulding and despite trawling the usual suppliers, Lion, Ashworth, Wessex etc I find the range is fairly limited. Does anyone know of a supplier or is it down to handfinishing?

[Roboframer]

Welcome to the forum, Bill.

Here's a 70mm from the Larosn Juhl 'Soho' range from Arqadia - there's more within and outside of that range from Arqadia - Simons would be a good bet too.

671_082_[1].jpg

[prospero]

What sort of style? The one Robo posted is quite contemporary and when I hear 'engraving' I tend to think olde worlde. Of course it might be a contemporary style engraving.

How matt does it have to be? In my experience, true matt blacks are a PITA as one touch will leave mark which will be impossible to remove.

[Bill the framer]

Thanks for the speedy response gents. it is a more "olde" style that is required. Something along the lines of Wessex PW5 or PW6 is more what the customer has in mind. I would include the image but not sure how you add an image to a post?

[Jonny2morsos]

Follow these instructions for adding images:

http://theframersforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=2435

[Roboframer]

Something along the lines of Wessex PW5 or PW6

Simons ref Brit/0044 on p20 of their catalogue is the same profile as PW5 in black, can't find a larger one though.

[prospero]

Those two profiles are old favourites. It wouldn't be a serious job to paint them. 2/3 coats of black acrylic - wax and buff - dust with rottenstone and final buff = very nice antique black. Perfick for antiquarian engravings. Of course you customer might have other ideas (don't they always? )

I'd use obeche rather than pine. If you don't want the grain showing you can get these two profiles ready compo'ed (I think.....)

[Jonny2morsos]

I have stained (ebony) and waxed those profiles. Would be interested to see the effect of your acrylic paint method, any chance of a picture?

[prospero]

I'll see what I can knock up this eventide.

[Bill the framer]

Your collective help is very much appreciated. What amazes me is the huge range of profiles displayed year in year out at Spring Fair and other events and the boasts of the suppliers about their huge choice of moulding and yet something as simple as this is such a challenge to source. I think I have got it clear in my mind what I think will work from your suggestions and it will be a hand finished solution. The client is happy to accept the Lion offering but it doesnt quite hit the mark for me. If anyone has any further suggestions they will be considered as it is a few days before the art is due to be delivered to me.

[Jonny2morsos]

I only started staining this profile black because I could not find it from any supplier. A dark blue also works well with marine type scenes.

[prospero]

What amazes me is the huge range of profiles displayed year in year out at Spring Fair and other events and the boasts of the suppliers about their huge choice of moulding and yet something as simple as this is such a challenge to source.

Well Said.

Any amount of weird and wonderful stuff...... Can't remember the last time I bought in finished moulding to use as nature intended.

[Roboframer]

The profile you exampled is boring - Ikea/Tesco/Sunday market stuff. Matt black is boring too, that's why most suppliers' offerings in matt black are limited to simple profiles, so don't be amazed one bit - your customer could have specified white, or pink or beige; there's more exciting stuff going on. Stand back to normal viewing distance and most any profile in matt black is just .... black!

Your client in our shop (apart from being down-graded to 'customer') would have been carefully listened to and then shown, from over 1000 samples on display, that we don't have what they are looking for and shown alternatives that blow it away - and if they don't rock their boat then I'm afraid it's tough. It takes a lot for us to pull out the catalogues to special-order.

I'm with this guy when it comes to black.


[youtube]wj84tfS7ag4[/youtube]

[prospero]

I'd agree 100% with Robo there. I have been known to buy black mouldings, sand them down, prime them and paint them black again. What's the difference?

Nothing. And everything........


I feel a sample coming on.

[Roboframer]

Hope it comes back negative

[prospero]

Dammit. I need a bottle with a wider top.

[prospero]

Finally got it done. Not a good photo, but moulding finishes are tricky to photo just right.

blackframe001.jpg (90.76 KiB) Viewed 12118 times

It's on a similar profile to the smaller rev moulding you mentioned. Obeche. Bit flatter.

It's not dead smooth. It's very labour-intensive to get a perfectly smooth finish on bare wood. I filled the grain a bit with polyfilla and applied a few coats of Ripple Paint. Stippled it a bit to fill the grain some more and give it a texture. Then a sand down and two coats of Mars Black acrylic. Wax polish and dusted with rottenstone and a final buffing. As it's difficult to paint by hand without showing brushmarks, I make them part of the finish. While the paint was wet I go over it with random criss-cross brushstrokes. The result is a sort of leathery look which can look quite effective on the right picture. (The sight edge has a bit of gilding on btw.)

Mars Black has a slight reddish cast to it. It shows on the photo but not as apparent in the flesh. For a really black black, black Acrylic Gesso is the stuff, but it does take longer to harden properly to the point were you can wax it. Sometimes I use an undercoat, usually Red Oxide. This gives the finish more depth and you can if you wish rub the finish back with steel wool to show patches on undercoat on the raised portions.


(I wonder if a sentence has ever been written before with the word 'black' used three times consecutively? )

[Bill the framer]

The finish looks great and is the right style for the engravings. Looks like I will need to get stuck in and practice to get a consistent approach and finish before attempting the final version. Many thanks for knocking up this example for me to see.

[Jonny2morsos]

I really like that and can see it being just right on period pieces.

Few questions if I may:
What acrylic do you use?
What is the moulding? I'm guessing from R&H
How to you do the gilding on the sight edge?

[prospero]

The paint is Daler-Rowney. I only use this brand in preference to Winsor&Newton beacuse the 500ml pots have a top big enough to get a big brush in.

Moulding is a Wessex one I'm trying out. haven't got the ref handy, but it's in the catalogue.

The gilding is gold powder in varnish. I mix my own brew, but Liberon Gilt Varnish will do the same. I stopped using it when they stopped selling the clear varnish medium separately.
Dab on with a lightly loaded brush and scrumble it about to get that nice broken effect. When it's dry you can rub it back a bit with fine steel wool. A few transverse scratches with a knife makes good faux shrinkage cracks. The gold is put on on top of the black btw.