The Framers Forum

Dear All

What a great forum, some great people, and a fantastic place to start.

Hi! How you doing? I'm Ben, and I've not made a frame for 20 years ('Hi, Ben'). Ahem. Actually:

I was a picture framer in Bristol for a couple of years waaaaaay back in the 90s, and have sporadically kept my hand in a bit since then.

I'm now a stay-at-home daddy to twins (which is epic: I never realised you could get so high with just sleep deprivation..!), who are now 26 months and starting nursery 2 days a week, which frees me up to...
convert the garage for framing.
It's a perfect space, with an office / workshop space above. I am very lucky.
Hurrah!

I'm intending to start slowly, but working up to 10 or 20 frames per week (optimistic?). Initially this would be through friends, but then advertising and word of mouth. I was good at gesso work, but I'd need to practise. A lot! My overheads are low. However, my driving motivation is to get back into framing because I loved it, and to stop my head turning to nappy; I don't expect to see a financial return for a couple of years.

I have no equipment as yet, but obviously have an idea what I'm looking for (the 'everything' sale/ad in mid January would have been right up my street). I'm kinda waiting for a 'job lot' to come up, as shuttling around the country for odds 'n' sods is too tricky and expensive.

I'm set on a Morso F (I think?!), but I'm all at sea with regard developments over the last 20 years, tbh. I guess I'd need a vacuum press, as well as a mount cutter (CMC? They seem awfully expensive...), glass/hardboard cutter, underpinners, specialist tools, etc, etc... Then I guess I need to think about suppliers of mouldings, mountboard

Where do I start?!


Thanks for reading this far!

Any kind words of advice would be gratefully recieved, and if any of you know of anything coming onto the market, count me in. As I wrote, I'm hoping to get a closing down / retiring sale, but we'll see. I live near Wallingford / Didcot.

Hope to chat soon!
Take care

Ben

bentheframer@btinternet.com

Hi Ben

Welcome aboard You'll find quite a load of stuff for sale on here with exactly what you need. There was an entire workshop up for grabs just last week with some excellent equipment but I imagine it's all gone now.

I know some suppliers will do a good deal on an entire workshop if you're after new stuff. The NEC has a show on at the moment, if you attend there's a chance you'll get sorted.

Anyway, enough from me ----- enjoy your stay

Hi and Welcome Ben.

The sales section is pretty active, so keep your eye on it.


CMCs are great pieces of kit and as you observe are not cheap. Whether one would be of benefit to you depends a lot on the type of work you are likely to be taking on. They can do all manner of weird and wonderful cuts that would be incredibly difficult to do on a manual. But you have to ask yourself how often you will be called upon to do weird and wonderful. Call me Mr.Cynical if you like, but a lot of the fancy CMC-cut mounts you see seem to be made by firms selling.......CMCs. Of course if you get a weekly order for 100 double 50-aperture ciggie card mounts, you will be glad you got one. They also win out when it comes to cutting extra-thick board.

Anyway, I've managed without one for 30 years.

I agree with Prospero, a manual mountcutter will do you fine for the time being - I even manage 3mm board with a bit of extra effort. Morso F definitely. Go for a pneumatic underpinner if you can - makes life a lot easier. A wall mounted cutter like a System 4000 can be had for very little money ( there's one on here at the mo for £350.00 ) and makes short work of cutting boards and glass etc. I'm not sure your idea of getting a job lot would be such a good idea, the odds of getting exactly what you want in one swoop are pretty long. Plenty more advice on here when you need it, but it will be varied.

Although I love our cmc we managed perfectly well without one, the following set up served my predecessor for 30 years:

Cassesse underpinner (CS89)

Fletcher 2200 manual mountcutter

Fletcher 3100 (or keencut 4000) wall mounted sheet material cutter for glass & backs (and sizing mountcard)

Morso f with extension

Fletcher point drivers


Good luck

prospero wrote:CMCs are great pieces of kit ....................................................But you have to ask yourself how often you will be called upon to do weird and wonderful

Reverse bevels, unequal margins, 90 degree apertures, ovals, circles, arches, rounded corners, thicker mount boards, multiple apertures (two or more, not necessarily 40 or 50) double or triple mount multiple apertures and not all the same size and shape ....... and much much more, are not "weird and wonderful" but all are problematic and some practically impossible manually.

If you have the space and it's within budget, get one, if things don't work out you'll probably be able to sell it on for pretty much what you paid for it.

Welcome to the forum.

i came from photo printing business

i actually didnt go out and buy everything at once

i started by buying a jetmounter

and a mountcutter

then bought frames made up

then when had chance i borrowed and underpinner and bought chops

then bought a panel cutter

then an underpinner

then a morso and was then able to buy stuff on length

and then got a cmc

but as robo says man it make sense to have one straight away if you can

cost isnt huge if you rent. and makes a huge difference to what you can offer instantly

I agree with Robo and stcstc, I wish I had purchased one earlier, but as you are converting your garage I would definitely go and look / mesure up before you buy unless your garage is very big.

Gosh; thank you, guys!

Some good observations there; thank you for Roboframer, stcstc, & IFGL for your thoughts on cmc.
I think I'm with Abacus (good list, thank you), Prospero, & An Old Master: I'll see how far I can get with a manual mount-cutter... when I find one near here!

Thanks, featurepiece, I saw that sale too; just too late!

It might be an idea to search out a friendly local framer who has a CMC. Then you can farm out the occasional mount that you can't manage.

I stated with mostly secondhand equipment which I was able to buy without having to borrow any money and there's some really nice secondhand equipment out there at very reasonable prices.

Also if you have a practical aptitude for it, you can restore many equipment items back tip top condition and functionality.

I started with the following secondhand equipment:

Keencut Ultimat, not the Uliimat Gold, (costing at the time £400)
System 4000 and a Oval-6 (costing £400 total for both)
Morso F (Costing £400)
Ademco heater press (costing £100)

Plus a new Cassesse CS-79

I later replaced the CS-79, with a secondhand CS-88 and replaced the Keencut Ultimat with a secondhand Ultimat Gold. To be honest the original items served me perfectly well and many of the design features of the CS-79 I still prefer to those of the CS-88 I now have.

I still think that the CS-79 is a very well designed and consructed machine, which would be a good option if secondhand at the right price.

I also now have accquired a pneumatic Euro underpinner, (bought for £50), which I need to find time to work on and get fully sorted, as it needs a new hammer return spring and the hammer end of stroke limit switch is leaking air, but once sorted, it should be good.

Euro as a company are long gone, so if the wrong bit fails, it could create difficulties, but they are built like tanks and can be bought quite cheaply. Since I still have the CS-88 as a second machine, risking £50 on the Euro, while knowing that some bits may be difficult to obtain, did not worry very much.

Even if it only lasts a year, or two, I will still have had good value for money. In all probability, it will last a lot longer than that and so as long as there is a back up in case anything goes badly wrong it's win/win!

Wishing you success with your new venture,
Mark

I'm running a cmc out of half of a double garage. Space is tight but I also manage some hand finishing and the usual range of bespoke jobs including some large stuff and some online sales. You have to be creative with the use of space but it can be done. It gets interesting when I get a large order. Organisation is the key.