Hello from Somerset

Say hello, and tell us a little about yourself.
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slippsgc
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Hello from Somerset

Post by slippsgc »

Good evening all,

My first post.
The Forum seems a mine of useful information with friendly, helpful postings.

Twenty odd years ago my wife had a part time business selling and mounting antique prints, selling at an antique centre-before children!
She used a Keencut Ace .... sadly it now seems to be a little tired and difficult to calibrate. Unsurprisingly Keencut were unwilling or unable
to give any help apart from suggesting buying the top of the range new models.

Most of the framed watercolours and prints we did then for our house- lots, now have the unpleasant brown core and they all
need replacing. Is it possible to shave these mounts down a fraction? I understand this is no long term solution.
The reason is that all the watercolours have washlines which I still like on Victorian and Edwardian pictures.
I understand, from reading the Forum, that this style is deeply unfashionable. Any suggestions for alternatives?

I will probably have to replace the Ace. Without reading the Forum I may well have chosen a Logan ! Oops.
They appear to be written off with only being suitable for hobby users. Just how bad are they ?
Other suppliers could well learn from the excellent clear instructions on line.

Nick.
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prospero
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Re: Hello from Somerset

Post by prospero »

Hi and Welcome Nick. :D

It's a problem when nice washlining has been done on a manky board. I had one from the eighties done by a very accomplished local
artist which he not only lined but did a beautiful bit of caligraphy on. Unfortunately the mountboard was particularly bad. Not just
the bevel but the entire surface paper had gone blotchy.

Shaving the bevels is a bit of a hiding to nothing as the board very likely won't cut well and there could be a mark were the original edge was.

You might want to consider gilding the bevels with some type of gold paint. A traditional technique. Also I would insert a barrier such as Mylar
under the mount to isolate it from the mount.

As for mountcutters..... I would look around for a decent used Pro model rather than persevering with a 'hobby' one. :wink:

Keep an eye on the Ads section.
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Re: Hello from Somerset

Post by Justintime »

Hi Nick,
The brown in the bevel is a sign of the acids in the core of the mountboard and often the cause of damage to the prints below.
Current best practice is to use conservation quality mountboard book hinged to a conservation quality undermount, which the work is attached to.
Practices have changed over the years and taking one apart you may well find that it is worth starting again with the mounting.
Washlines are not hard to master, do not require a huge investment in materials and are a very satisfying and rewarding part of the process.
I have a second hand Fletcher 2200 for sale, it is in good condition and in the right hands cuts perfect mounts every time. After the lockdown is over, I may be open to an offer on it.
Justin George GCF(APF)
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Re: Hello from Somerset

Post by Not your average framer »

I would not bother with the old mounts, not many customers are looking for wash line mounts these days. The minimalist look killed much of that market. Also the earlier neutral pH cream core board, where only about 1.2mm thick and the cut bevels look really shinny, which again is reinforcing the old fashioned look in the minds of potential customers. Many of the older mount cutters are not really adequate to cutting today's higher density and much better quality boards, so a proper professional quality mount cutter is a much better choice, but it does not necessarily have to be brand new. A good second hand one will not only be quite adequate, be will also save you plenty of money.

The market for selling such prints at anitique fairs is long gone. I had a second hand bookshop and antique print shop and still have much of thy stock of prints. After selling my shop, I still sold prints and an auction house in Exeter for a few years, but nobody is interested in buying them anymore and that slowly died a death and it became a waste of time taking them to the auction house. I don't want to be negative, but having a place to sell your prints and waiting for customers to come to you during this covid crisis, when so many people are trying to stay at home could be a problem. You may need to find another way to connect with your customers, to secure a worthwhile volume of sales.

Your strategy for reaching potential customers, needs to be an essential part of your business plan. In my own situation, I already have my own shop, I am have another shop keeper across the road who is an interior designer and sells various household interior items, which she has to buy in minimum quantities and I have been discussing making this items for her in smaller quantities at better prices. These items are all made of wood and I have lots of recycled wood to re-purpose to make items for her. Realistically, there will be a limit to how much income I will get from the one source, so I also have other plans.

My shop is being fitted out, with a view from re-opening my business, my previous landlord needed my previous premises for his own use and I had to move out. I had a lot of problems finding somewhere else and before I could get the new shop sorted, I had a serious stroke and getting the place sorted after that was not possible for a long time. The shop is now being sorted and there is a lady who I have hired to re-paint the shop, she also does up lots of old furniture which she sells, mostly via the internet and she will be selling quite a bit of stuff that I will be making, using my mountain of recycled wood. There is also a fairly reasonable market for old looking rustic framed mirrors which I am also pursuing. It's all about finding enough worthwhile income streams to keep things going.

Please don't think that I'm trying to put you off. In fact I hope that you will sell some of your old prints, but I hope that you will be able to create a few other worthwhile income streams as well. I have a good quantity of left over off cuts of framing materials and have been making up other items to sell, for years and years and getting some regular sales volume from these as well. If you look at a few of my earlier posts, you will probably notice that I like hand finishing and stacked moulding frames. Well, much of the left over bits of moulding need to be stacked with other mouldings to create something that will appeal to customers and the hand finishing also is part of creating the customer appeal.

Hand finishing and stacked moulding frames is not exactly everyone's thing, but it may be worth thinking about.
Best wishes,
Mark.
Mark Lacey

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Re: Hello from Somerset

Post by vintage frames »

If the mounts are antique wash-line mounts, then I would go with Prospero's suggestion. If they are just 20 years old, then Justintime gives the best advice.
Alternatively, use a double thickness off-white mount to give them a bit of oomph.
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slippsgc
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Re: Hello from Somerset

Post by slippsgc »

Many thanks for the quick replies.
My personal antique watercolours and prints which are hanging on the walls here have washlines that are all modern, 20-30 years old, probably on poor quality mount board. I rather like the idea of covering the brown bevels.....
I would like to learn the washline technique-any suitable links ?
What is the current way of mount decoration for antique works on paper?
It seems that a more modern mount cutter will be needed the Fletcher 2200 sounds great, but possibly a little pricey for me.

I had not really considered starting trying to sell our old stock again- much of it appears very dated now. I only started looking thanks
to the lockdown. I have plenty of dead stock I suspect. However, it may be a project to keep me occupied.

I have no framing equipment so that may be another step, possibly too far.

I will continue to read my way through the forum and your advice is all much appreciated.

Nick.
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Re: Hello from Somerset

Post by Justintime »

Washlines are also known as French matting, which will help your search.
Have a look at "Ursula Hobson-fine art of french matting" and search for "wash lines on picture mounts" on youtube.
There is a french matting group on facebook for ideas and encouragement.
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Re: Hello from Somerset

Post by vintage frames »

If you want to sell your stock of antique prints in mounts then Prospero's idea of gilding the bevel would make them much more interesting. Gold paint would do but if the price supports it, real gold on the bevel would give them more 'zing'.
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Re: Hello from Somerset

Post by Keith Hewitt »

There was a very good article in the Jan 2020 issue of Art + Framing Today.

" Master the art of washlines" by Mark Wallington

If you send me your address ( postal and or Email ) I will send you (or anyone else) a copy
Keith Hewitt
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prospero
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Re: Hello from Somerset

Post by prospero »

I used to do a lot of washlining back in the day. It's not easy and takes a bit of practice. I always ruled the lines first
and then did the panels with powder. (I think Lion still do Pete Bingham's version). Doing them 'wet' is the trad method
but this takes even more practice. There is a very steep learning curve, which is probably one of the reasons they have
faded from popularity.

** An old Antique dealer once told be that old pictures are more saleable in their original state - warts and all, rather
than ones that have been tarted up. This maybe wouldn't apply to '70s/'80s stuff which would probably benefit from
reframing in a more up-to-date style. People used to put them on completely inappropriate pictures, simply because
they thought it added a touch of quality.
I recently remounted some of my own paintings that I originally used washlined mounts on. They were done in the
'90s for one customer. My first thought at the time was :shock:, but worked out a design and did it. Also refinished the
gold frames to a more contemporary style and added AR glass. The effect was most pleasing. :D
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Re: Hello from Somerset

Post by Not your average framer »

I used to sell a lot of old prints and engravings. A lot depended on who you were doing them for. What sort of frames that they were framed in needed to look in keeping with the age for those that I sold to antique dealers. Antique dealer always said that the frame was less important than the print, but when it came to the crunch that turned out that was not true. They were just cheapskates when it came to paying much money for the frame! Some other frames displayed for sale were framed in narrow stained mouldings with a gold sight edge, which were available as factory finished mouldings from Simons. Customers often got these re-framed afterwards, but often would not buy a print if it was not framed. Effectively I was framing them just for display in the shop to help them sell and then they would be re-framed. Go figure? I did not make much sense to me.

I also sold many of my prints as only mounted a baged in bowers, but I could not get a good price for these, without framing them for display. Customers would pay a much better price for these and then if it was for them, they would often get it reframed later. I never could quite figure this out. How does this work? It seems crazy! I also sold vintage adverts, which were mounted and not framed, customers always wanted these un-framed and framed them in cheap ready made frames, with a more modern moulding shape and style. Gradually the older generation, who were buying this older stuff, wear slowly fading away and I was selling less and less of the older things. Eventually the market for such items was gone, also my other market which was second hand books was becoming less popular and eventually it was decided to close the shop.

Antique dealers are not a great market. They are usually wanting to get everything on the cheap! It goes something like this, "can you put this print in to this old frame and cut a mount to suit and I don't want to pay more that twenty quid". If you can team up with an old secondhand bookshop, this might be a possible source of some business, but it's still not always as great as you might think. There's not that many second hand bookshops around now and the old school bookshop owners, who used to remove suitable book plate prints and cut a suitable mount so that they can get a bit of money out of an un-usable book are largely long gone these days. I was one of those for a few years, but eventually things like ebay, slowly strangled most small second hand bookshops and only the big one's survived.

Realistically stuff like this is not going to be your main sustainable market these days. You really need to be making your income from a braoder market than just this. Sorry to say this, but it's just how things are these days! I am not just doing picture framing anymore, but I'm making all sorts of bits and pieces with quite a bit of old antique'ish and vintage looking stuff thrown in. Small household interiors type stuff is quite helpful too. I did not get here by having a great master plan, it was largely by accident, trial and error and being asked to do odds and ends by customers who just popped in on the off chance. I survive largely by doing stuff that nobody else is doing locally.

It's the niche market thing, hand finishing, stacked mouldings and a variety of other things based on what my equipment enables me to do. If you think that I'm being all that clever, well maybe not! I'm just a small guy, in a small town out in the sticks, who has tuned in to what people in old cottages, barn conversions and people who are in to country style rustic, tend to like to buy. It's not a particular great formula, but if you are in the right place it may be the right thing. The local economy is shinking and I'm starting to look a bit more towards the internet to increase my available market. I never planned it this way, but a lot of what I already do is what a lot of people are looking for on the internet and the main difference is that I seem to be much better than the cowboys at doing really authentic old looking rustic type finishes.

I'm not saying that it's easy, but I seem to have dropped in to the right niche, without having much idea that this is what I was doing, but all this time later here I am.
Mark Lacey

“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer
slippsgc
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Re: Hello from Somerset

Post by slippsgc »

Sadly I have not yet worked out how to reply to the individual members who have taken the trouble to reply.

I am delighted that so much helpful advice has been offered.

Thank you Keith for the article on wash lines-very much appreciated.

I am, as yet,undecided on the way forward. Thanks for all your suggestions.

However it looks that my Keencut Ace may have to be replaced.
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Re: Hello from Somerset

Post by Justintime »

Did I mention that I have a Fletcher 2200 for sale? 😁
Justin George GCF(APF)
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slippsgc
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Re: Hello from Somerset

Post by slippsgc »

Evening Justin,
Its just possible you may have mentioned that you have a Fletcher for sale !
Sadly it may be out of my pay grade........
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