New Business Venture, HELP, advice requested.

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Gary4444
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New Business Venture, HELP, advice requested.

Post by Gary4444 »

Hi all & thanks for advice left on an old post (Albeit 18 months ago! - hope everyone's stayed safe & well).

1st & foremost I need to make a decision as to start a new venture of either, offering a framing service only, or to try & incorporate a small gallery too.
One that's decided, it'll make looking for suitable premises much easier (size, location etc.)

Ideally I'd like to do the framing myself, in-house, after suitable training. Would you advise establishing a framing business first, then hopefully trying to add a small gallery, or, focus on the gallery & offering a framing service from it. A suggestion has been made to outsource part of the framing (i.e., ordering the frame, glass & back, then assembling in-house?). I'd prefer not to have to move premises later on.

Any thoughts & advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Regards - Gary
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Re: New Business Venture, HELP, advice requested.

Post by Not your average framer »

Hi gary,

As far as I know it's a lot easier finding suitable training to be a framer, than to find suitable training to start a succeessful gallery. For this reason alone, starting out as a framers might be the best move, but it's still quite a steep learning curve. Like many on this forum, I did not have much idea when I started out, what is was letting myself in for and I slowly struggle to get to the point where I had a viable business. it involved a lo of advice from other members on the forum and quite a difficult first six months of trading.

I'm nothing special and I'm not really based in the best location, it was in this location, or nothing. I did not do very well for a long time. customers want to hear from other customers, if you are any good before they will bring their framing to you. As your reputation grows customers start to bring their framing to you. Until then you have to accept a slow build up and not go to wild spending money, while waiting for things to come together. It is said that it takes about two years to get a new business established and in my case, that was probably about right.

If you don't mind working at it and learning your skills well for about two years, then it often works well. Learning how to price a job was the most difficult part for me and prices won't be the same for businesses in every part of the country. You will make mistakes, I made some and you've just got to learn from them and move on. It hard work, but quite a lot of us have made it and don't forget that lots of us got started the hard way and that we are always here to help here on this forum. If you need some help, or advice, don't be afraid to ask.

All the best,
Mark.
Mark Lacey

“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer
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Gesso&Bole
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Re: New Business Venture, HELP, advice requested.

Post by Gesso&Bole »

I would say that the majority of good framers are not particularly good at running a gallery, and vice versa.

That isn't to say it's not possible! Just my observations, and own experience. There are obviously going to be exceptions.

It's very different if there are two people, one running the gallery, and one running the framing - that can be a good way to do it.

I suppose another way of looking at it would be to ask yourself if you have the right personality to do both?

When I have tried to do both, I have always found myself drawn to making/framing/doing in the workshop, and neglecting the gallery. My solution was to stop trying to sell pictures, but to use the 'gallery' space to showcase the different framing techniques - things like framing the same print in 10 different ways, so that customers can see what the benefits of double-mounts/fillets/AR glass etc add to the finished result. This has worked better for me.

Now, I have gone a stage further, and work from my home workshop, so I have time to post on here instead of spending quite so much time with people 'just looking'.

So to conclude - by all means have a gallery as well, but you've got to really put a lot of work into the retail/social media end, which will probably mean that you don't have the time for framing, unless you genuinely love both parts of the business, and are able to allocate your time efficiently to both.
Jeremy (Jim) Anderson
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Gesso&Bole
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Re: New Business Venture, HELP, advice requested.

Post by Gesso&Bole »

Oh, another thing Gary, I would suggest getting your training before you commit to any equipment or premises. :D
Jeremy (Jim) Anderson
Picture Framer and Framing Industry Educator
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Not your average framer
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Re: New Business Venture, HELP, advice requested.

Post by Not your average framer »

Many of us tend to operate with a t least some second hand equipment, which is a sensible way of stretching of finances. When you get some training, ask the trainer to take you through how to check out the condition and usablity of the main equipment that you will need. This will be helpful to you if you decide to buy any second hand equipment. It is important to see what to look for on actual equipment. When I got started, I was very short of money and second hand equipment was all I could afford, it saved me a lot of money at the time. I had already had a period of time training at a major south devon gallery for six months before hand, so I was already famiilar with all the usual equipment and therefore I knew what I was buying and how to check that it worked properly, which was very helpful.

I was living on unemployment benefits at the time and most of the money that I needed had to be saved up bit by bit from my benefits. As time when on I also bought various items of stock from places that were closing down, most of the mouldings which I bought were a bit old and needed a bit of hand finishing to make them look more up to date. I've been had finishing mouldings and frames ever since. I never knew if things would work out successfully for quite a long while and it was quite a long time before I could stop struggling. After six months, I had quite a bad heart attack and that was very hard and then I was really struggling to cope with the work that was coming in, so I put my prices up by 20 percent and instead of getting less work, I get even more.

Then I decided to increase my prices again by another 20 percent and yet again got even more work, so I did not bother to increase my prices any more. It was a very strange time! How I managed to survive this period is hard to understand. To me I can only say that it was a real miracle and all these years later and after yet more difficulties, I am still here. Don't ask me how, but it was mostly by the skin of my teeth. I am now 68 years old and still trying to go for it. Am I a bit crazy? I don't know, but I'm still try to do what it takes to pay the bills and keep going. One day I'll have the good sense to stop, but I have not got there yet. Am I a big sucess and making lots of money? Well making lots of money in a mall rural devon town on the edge of Dartmoor isn't particularly easy, but I'm getting by.
Mark Lacey

“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer
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prospero
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Re: New Business Venture, HELP, advice requested.

Post by prospero »

Hi and Welcome Gary. :D

One thing you have to think about is that the term 'framing' covers a wide area. People will hang almost anything
on a wall and it's the framer who has to decide how to deal with it. As well as 'pictures' there is needlework, 3D objects,
sports shirts and memorabilia. Coins, medals. You never know what folks are going to pitch up with.

Avoid crossing the line into restoration. People will always assume the a framer can fix anything. Don't try to 'improve' stuff.
And never practice new techniques on customer's work.

The actual frame construction is a small aspect of the craft. The way the work is put in the frame is the main skill. :D

You should work to the ideal that when you have finished the job you should be able to un-frame it again and never be able
to tell it had ever been in a frame. Not always possible, but it's a principle to work to. :wink:

Good Luck. 8)
Watch Out. There's A Humphrey About
Gary4444
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Re: New Business Venture, HELP, advice requested.

Post by Gary4444 »

Thanks for all the advice & suggestions.
It's really helpful & will definitely help in my decisions.

Perhaps a shorter term lease on premises (or the inclusion of a break clause)
may be an option if I'm unsure which direction the business was likely to take?

Gary
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GeoSpectrum
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Re: New Business Venture, HELP, advice requested.

Post by GeoSpectrum »

A break clause is a given I suggest. You need an ‘out’ if things don’t work out.
Alan Huntley
Ashcraft Framing
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Not your average framer
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Re: New Business Venture, HELP, advice requested.

Post by Not your average framer »

I was not sure about how long I wanted to commit myself to with my present lease, so I settled on a three year lease and this runs out this year, as I become 69 years old. The last two years have been not very active because of my stroke, my mother dying and covid, so I have not had very much benefit from my shop lease during this time, been at least my lease on the flat has given me somewhere to live. At the end of the lease, it will still continue on a rolling basis as long as neither my self, or my landlord choose to give notice. Maybe a short initial period, will a roll over option would be a good option for you as well.

Fortunately for me the monthly rent for the shop is something which I have been able to manage during this period of less happening. If you are in a not too busy location, maybe the rent will be quite reasonable, such as in my case and this has been very helpful to me. There's going to be quite a lot of empty shops around, as a result of likely business failures, so it won't be necessary to rush to take on the very first premises that you get offered. Maybe there's better premises at a better rent, just waiting for you to snap it up, My current shop premises are a lot cheaper to rent than the first place I was offered and there was a flat available in the same premises. It's two separate leases, but no more expense than just the rent for the shop that first was available.

I have as a result got a very short distance to travel to work and this makes life so much easier and when my stroke came along and I could hardly walk, this was extremely helpful indeed.
Mark Lacey

“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer
wgpictureframing
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Re: New Business Venture, HELP, advice requested.

Post by wgpictureframing »

it is easy to stretch yourself too thinly. galleries are hard businesses to run and people are buying more art online than ever. framing has much better margins than art sales; many suppliers will sell you a length at a time albeit cheaper if you buy by the pack but you can manage cashflow easily this way. spend money on training or offer your help for free to a framer outside of your area.. people are pretty decent in this business :) get a website, you don't have to spend loads on it as long as it is clear; you can update when you know more. there are lots of specializations within framing; i would focus on one area and not try and keep everyone happy.. impossible! for example; framing for artist is a tough area.. pricing is keen and customers can absorb a lot of time before committing. Stay away from restoration but by all means take in work for a friendly local restorer who will ask upwards or 4 weeks to carry out basic cleaning so don't be pushed into unrealistic deadlines by customers. pricing: its easy to end up a 'busy fool'; assess what you need to earn an hour.. work out time per job.. consulting with customer 30minutes. making frame 2 hours.. better to do it well than do it fast.. price minimum of 1 length per frame, even if tiny. 1 mountboard per job, 1 glass sheet per job etc. you will waste materials ; i still do :) If you are a 'senior' person then i recommend you focus on 'seniors' and they are generally more willing to wait. ask 3 weeks for completion, you will need it if starting out.. never give out average work; the customer generally will not say anything but you wont see them again. select a range of moulding that are easy to cut and assembly and touch up if necessary, your framing course trainer can advise you here. "build it and they will come".. you dont need fancy locations or even visibility.. people will find you.. spend money on the product not the landlord. if you keep your overheads low and buy materials on a needs level,, then you can stay out of trouble.. thats my tuppence worth.. good luck!
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Orde02
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Re: New Business Venture, HELP, advice requested.

Post by Orde02 »

Some good advice there wgpictureframing! Taking some onboard myself.

Matt
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Re: New Business Venture, HELP, advice requested.

Post by Not your average framer »

It's very interesting what wgpicture framing has to say particularly regarding senior persons. I think that there is a lot of truth and wisdom there. As some of you are probably already aware, I would probably be regarded as one of those senior people. To be honest about it , I find that much of what is being suggested is imposed on us as we get older. We can no longer just do what we like and rush jobs and customer particularly who want to try and push us us, greatly disturb our flow and equilibrium. I need to mentally prepare myself much more than I ever did before and I need to be much more focused and aware of what I need to be doing at particular times, than I ever did before. I find kitchen countdown timers very useful these days, to remind me to go back to jobs that I set aside while the glue, or paint is drying. Kitchen timers are great, you can place pieces of paper with them to remind you to do something, or even to sit down and rest while enjoying a much needed tea break.

I am much less driven by the need to make enough money to remain profitable. I take life at a different pace since my stroke and it not a determined choice that I have made. It's no longer a matter of choice, I now live at a pace that fits my current physical state and capabilities. Working in batches, is very helpful, it helps me to stay on track. Being organised is a dry wipe board and dry wipe markers, these days. I do much more preparing the individual items required ahead of actually completing the job. I does not matter, if I don't do the rest of the job until some time later. Jobs are so much easier when they have already been prepped beforehand. There are times when I will prep a job before putting it away in the rack. Some days are less involved with serving customers and I can get on with much more calmly working on getting jobs finished, but there are also days which are more bitty and I find it easier to do more of the preperation side of things. I like like separated spaces in job racks to assemble all the prepped bits, ready to do the job.

I also like little printed out job sheets with tick boxes, so that I can see what has been prepped and what needs doing next. It really saves time when needing to think about what need doing next. I like it simple and if the next thing to be done is in the nest pigoen hole that will do me just fine! Artwork get stored in folders made with archival backing boards, which often get made when the artwork is brought in, if it's a large one and the folder often gets reused for backing boards as soon as the job gets completed. Old folders just end up looking tatty, which looks bad. I often recycle the smaller folders into backs for ready made frames after they have been used, more than two, or three times. If I reuse them to much and they start to look tatty, I have lost my chance to recycle and reuse the backing board for making backing boards for frames. I have lots of dividers like wooden toast racks that fit into spaces under some of my benches. I also have pigoen holes for cut to size pieces of glass, mountboard and backing board are stored ready for use. I cut these from scraps and try to reuse waste like this.
Mark Lacey

“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer
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prospero
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Re: New Business Venture, HELP, advice requested.

Post by prospero »

Art sales can be profitable, but they are speculative. You might get sales right away or you might have a painting
on the wall for years. By all means have a few pictures for sale, but only if you have spare wall space. If nothing else
they serve to show off framing styles.

People don't buy art - originals and prints with the same fervour as they did back in the '80s/'90s. That particular bubble
has burst. It's a new generation now and tastes change. :roll:
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Re: New Business Venture, HELP, advice requested.

Post by Not your average framer »

Most of my stock of prints are a bit old and of of date, I can't tell you when I last sold any paintings, or prints. The truth is that I don't have much idea what sells, or even what to charge for it, so I've never really got into it very much. Years ago, I used to sell some mounted french impressionist prints, smal little Cats & caligraphy prints by Sidney Hauser and some small 1920's Devon and Dartmoor prints by R D sherrin but that's about it. I'm never all that sure what the art side of this is all about, I guess if you know what customers are looking for, then you might be in with a chance.
Mark Lacey

“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer
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