CMC choices

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IFGL
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Re: CMC choices

Post by IFGL »

Cutting the blanks first would take way longer, we get 6 per sheet, so it's not like we change it every mat. But still a pain in the rear, I did look very hard at the gunnar but decided I didn't want the same blade cutting the external and internal,
stcstc

Re: CMC choices

Post by stcstc »

why not

works spot on doing both
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Re: CMC choices

Post by Roboframer »

For most stuff I only get the machine to cut the outside as well as the aperture if the offcuts would be of no use - I don't, for example, want big sheets with rectangles missing bottom left, only have to trim the thing before putting it back. So most times I've cut the outside on my wall cutter so that's a 90 degree cut. Vast majority of things that the machine cuts outside and inside are cut with the same blade, bevelled.

Biggest use my 90 degree head gets is on foam board for rebate spacers.

If I had the option to cut outside at 90 degrees without changing heads I'd use it, but first sentence above would still apply.
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Re: CMC choices

Post by grahamdown »

My only comment is consider what board you want to cut. More and more 3.2 and 3.5mm is becoming available and not all CMC's are capable of cutting these boards which was the reason i went for a CMC in the first place.
stcstc

Re: CMC choices

Post by stcstc »

which ones cant cut it?
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Re: CMC choices

Post by grahamdown »

The Wizard
stcstc

Re: CMC choices

Post by stcstc »

really, thought wizard could cut those boards, but jeez i dunno :-)
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Re: CMC choices

Post by misterdiy »

We run the Trucut Alpha vacuum which is great... in most cases, but we cut a lot of mounts in black and they curl upwards, despite the vacuum. To rectify this we reverse cut the black ones and that helps but they still seem to bow outwards so I like the idea of optional clamps. We do a lot of internet mounts so we do need to cut straight outside edges, but if we were to change machines would we have another Trucut? Difficult one, mainly because of the software which is archaic by today's standards, but service is top notch and phone tutorials are very good except for the phone bill. Speed of machine is very good (triple aperture 8 x 6 gives 25 to a sheet and that completes in under 8 minutes)

Jumbo would be good, but if we get a massive job we tend to push the client down the slip route rather than mount. :shock:
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Re: CMC choices

Post by Elite »

G'day Timh. May I suggest that before you go to the fair next year, research as much as you can on each machine. Visit each website and have a look at videos on you tube. When we were deciding on a CMC, the first one we saw working was like Disneyland to us...........( and I must admit, sometimes we still just watch in amazement when our Valiani is doing it's thing!!!! :clap: ). So if you have a look see on you tube, you may not be 'star struck' when you see them working 'in the flesh'. Watching videos may also give you ideas of specific questions for each demonstrator.
They are fantastic machines which all basically do the same thing. Look at quality of machine and product produced, ease of use, training and backup service.
Good luck and enjoy..... :D
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Re: CMC choices

Post by penfold »

Some interesting comments here, although one or two ill-informed!

Most CMC's do pretty much everything a framer could want day to day, but the area where some win hands down over others is ease of use and back up from the supplier.

I've used a Wizard and now have a Gunnar F1xl, build quality is superb and once I got used to it, the software is easy to use. In terms of support I can't fault it, telephone response is excellent and on the very rare occasion we needed spare parts (once!) David dropped everything and was at the shop really early......next to no production lost!!! in fact in five plus years, we've only had one breakdown that I can recall!

Ongoing support is great with advanced instruction available each year as new developments come about such as the pen tool, and if you don't perform a task very often and forget how to do it, they are only a phone call away.


One point I would make is NOT to make a decision based on what you see at the spring fair, by all means use it to shortlist but make your final decision based on conversations with actual users.Generally, the machines will be performing their party tricks and thats not something most use every day. You would be welcome to visit us if you are ever in London if you wanted to, have a go on my machine if that will help.


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Re: CMC choices

Post by Steve N »

Good point Penfold about seeing it in a workshop situation, Timh you are quite welcome to pop in and see ours working
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Re: CMC choices

Post by Steve N »

Good point Penfold about seeing it in a workshop situation, Timh you are quite welcome to pop in and see ours working
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Re: CMC choices

Post by Kevlar »

Hi Timh, loads of great points on this thread and will be great for anyone thinking of a CMC. I have a Gunnar F1 Hybrid, so I don't need to change heads to do straight and bevel cuts in one pass, this speeds things up and generally makes life easier to be honest. I personally love the build quality of the Gunnar and the support I receive when needed is top notch. I have the pen tool on my CMC too and have used this quite a lot, adding written detail to mounts. This is a nice additional offering that allows for upsales.

Where the CMC comes into its own is in cutting multi aperture mounts, I cut loads and they are never the same, many with up to 17 images in them (our wedding photography business drives this need, but once people in general see the options, we get quite a few non wedding related sales too) Multi apertures like that would be a nightmare using manual mount cutting equipment.

The Gunnar software is easy to use, with some great positioning/alignment tools that make it easy to setup large multi aperture mounts. Quite a few decorative options are included in the standard software and it also cuts your cardboard boxes if you want it too. I have used mine to cut 350 micron mylar stencils for a customer also, so its versatile for sure. It also has an art view option now too.

Best of all, without the Gunnar, I would find it much more difficult to produce this sort of thing. :-)
Ps this is the brides bouquet, the grooms buttonhole and three photos, two purposely blurred for privacy, but it shows me having used the cove box options along with multi apertures and mylar strips for securing the flowers.
Recent job using Gunnar F1 Hybrid
Recent job using Gunnar F1 Hybrid
Montage 2 CMC.jpg (2.24 MiB) Viewed 6643 times
Hope this helps
Kev
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Re: CMC choices

Post by grahamdown »

Having looked around I went for the Gunnar F1 Hybrid. Not having to change heads for rdiffernet thicknesses of boards and having a single head which cuts bevel and straight cuts is great.

Support seems very good as well.

Regards,

Graham
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Re: CMC choices

Post by benjiman grapes »

I myself use a Gunnar F1 but unlike Kevlar and grahamdown I don't have the Hybrid.
Something I'm leaning on the boss for.
I love my Gunnar. The software is a treat, especially since the update a while back, and the support from Sarah & Jarvis is second to non.

One of the little things i love is the maintenance tool in the software.
It guildes you through re-calibrating if you find the machine cutting out over time/use.
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Re: CMC choices

Post by Not your average framer »

We have almost finished revamping the internal layout inside our premises and as a result I will have enough space for a CMC. When I am happy about the finances and the timing to take the plunge, I will not be wanting a CMC with a thoughts of mass production of mounts, or selling mounts on the internet, but for me it is all about design capabilities, time saving, efficiency and the ability to do things which will WOW the customers.

One of the important requirements for me has to be "minimum operator intervention", which is why I like the Gunnar F1 Hybrid. Needing to change heads is not what I want to be doing if I can avoid it. If the machine can get on with the job without my intervention, then I can be cutting the glass and backing board, or maybe even more than that! I would like the XL version, but I'm not sure that I have the space required.

The pen head would definately be on my wants list and if I can accomodate the XL machine, the box making facility would be very useful as well. In fact I might go as far as offering a custom box making service to customers. I have already discussed this with possible customers and there is already some worthwhile business potential for such a service. I'm not sure that the box making facility would be as useful on the smaller standard size machine, but I could be wrong about that!

To be completely fair, I do like the capabilities of the Valliani as well and if it was not for the hybrid head and the automatic computer controlled adjustment of the blade depth to suit different thicknesses of boards, it might be more difficult to choose between them. Both machines are superbly engineered, but the lack of operator intervention is such a big plus for me.

While there are advantages in buying a CMC, I have decided to rent. If anything goes wrong, somebody else has got to pay for the cost of fixing it. O.K., I know that I still end up paying for that in my rental, but it's nice to know that there won't be any un-planned expenses coming out of the blue at a bad time.
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Re: CMC choices

Post by IFGL »

Unfortunately it is doubtful you will be able to just walk off and leave it to it's own devices, a slight bend in the board and it will rip it to pieces, a cut out pops out and it will run over it and cock the rest up, you have to pretty much be close on hand for these little upsets, we now have a dedicated mount cutting operative, the time it takes the hybrid to go to the top and click over for a straight cut is about the same to change the magnetic head on the val, or change the blade carrier on the wizard, + you can change the blade on the val for one while the other is cutting, on the gunnar you have to stop to change the blade, which wears out double speed due to cutting straight and bevelled.

I am not a fan of the Valiani due to continuing issues and at least 5 full days of down time with ours in the last 18 months, I am sure ours is not the normal, but it has cost us dearly.

You shouldn't be under any illusions about any of the machines you look at.

when we are ready to upgrade, we will be looking at all options, a twin head machine with a vacuum is a must.
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