CMC Size

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CMC Size

Postby Ed209 » Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:53 pm

Had a very good demonstration of the Gunnar AiOX by Sarah & another chap at the spring fair and will probably end up getting one in the future but a couple of decisions need to be considered.

The first is size, In our new premises we hoping to move to it will probably have to go upstairs (wide industrial staircase & solid concrete floors) the XL model is not relatively not much more expensive but a lot bigger footprint.

Max sheet size on standard 81.5cm x 112cm & XL 112cm x 163cm

Now it may be a problem getting the XL upstairs and the space it takes up is quite considerable but is it something I would use (do other framers on here get asked for jumbo mounts often?) or just better of with the standard as a everyday workhorse and farm out anything I did get oversized if required.

The over decision is financing it Loan or lease? Gunner don't lease themselves but have a contact for a specialist leaser for there products.

Just thought of a couple of other things Pen Holder (expensive option) also vacuum bed (another expensive option)

Then we have Brexit (had to be mentioned :D ) Re: prices increase & delivery cost (which is not included in the price)

Thank you

Paul
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Re: CMC Size

Postby vintage frames » Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:23 pm

I suppose if you leased the equipment, then that would leave you with more options for credit if you need to raise a business loan later. I know I bought a lot of my early machinery by leasing and was so able to afford a higher degree of spec than I needed at the time. Something I have never regretted.
However, I would be interested to know why you now feel you need a CMC. Is it to do contract work?
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Re: CMC Size

Postby grahamdown » Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:54 pm

I bought a refurbished standard size F1 hybrid from Sarah some years ago and never looked back. i bought one because I was getting more and more requests for 3.5mm mounts (often multiple windows) and whilst cutting them by hand was OK it was time consuming and one slip and £12 worth of mount board was gone. only had one or two requests for jumbo mounts in the years I've been using mine so never seen it as a problem. Don't have a vacuum bed so have to allow a 35mm margin and although I had the option of a pen tool I thought it was too expensive for the likely return.
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Re: CMC Size

Postby skerries frameworks » Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:52 am

Jumbo size boards produce less waste in my experience
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Re: CMC Size

Postby Tudor Rose » Mon Feb 18, 2019 2:28 pm

Quotes from Paul: Had a very good demonstration of the Gunnar AiOX by Sarah & another chap at the spring fair and will probably end up getting one in the future but a couple of decisions need to be considered.

The first is size, In our new premises we hoping to move to it will probably have to go upstairs (wide industrial staircase & solid concrete floors) the XL model is not relatively not much more expensive but a lot bigger footprint.


We've just ordered our Gunnar AioX XL to replace our 2 Valiani machines - one a standard board size CMC and one a jumbo board size pneumatic. We do enough jumbo mounts each year to justify both machines and the decision to go jumbo with the new CMC was a no brainer. It has saved us space overall as we're replacing 2 machines with 1 and it means we can continue to offer a full range of sizes. If you can afford it and can fit an XL into your workshop then I would go for it.

The other decision is financing it Loan or lease? Gunner don't lease themselves but have a contact for a specialist leaser for there products. Don't have experience of leasing, we've always bought our machines outright so can't be of any help with this one, sorry.

Just thought of a couple of other things Pen Holder (expensive option) Yes expensive, but we have one with our current CMC so we didn't want to lose the ability to use one. also vacuum bed (another expensive option) again, yes an expensive option but it allows you to do edge to edge cutting and to ensure the mounts don't "roll up" which they can sometimes do if you do lots of apertures. It keeps fall outs in place too. We knew that people who had a vacuum bed were pleased to have spent the extra so it seemed a worthwhile investment.

Then we have Brexit (had to be mentioned :D ) Re: prices increase & delivery cost (which is not included in the price) We ordered ours at the show and are getting it delivered before Brexit to make sure that the price is what we were expecting and that the VAT rules are as we understand them at the moment. As we are VAT registered that makes sense financially for us. We didn't like the idea of dealing with the uncertainty in case everything changes overnight after the end of March.

Hope that's helpful. :D
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Re: CMC Size

Postby DEEPJOY » Thu Feb 28, 2019 1:20 am

The Aiox bed is the largest single part of the machine and Steve, Sarah and I have carried a few upstairs to there final resting place. A site visit is not always ease, so Sarah or Steve will talk you through what is required in reference to access / dimensions.

From not having a CMC to owning any size of machine, will make a massive difference to how you operate and the new work you can consider. So unless you are absolutely certain you need the larger bed size I would save a wee bit of money and room in the workshop and have the smaller bed size.

Vacuum is a great addition, but again, price and the type of work you do must be considered.Again with regard to the pen, only you will know if it will work for you.

One thing which is an important choice, which I am not sure you mentioned in your post is the head type. Have you thought about or discussed with Sarah the hybrid or twin head. In case you do not know the difference, the hybrid is a unique bit of engineering with a single blade that switches between bevel and straight cut. This system has been around for years and features on the F1 hybrid machines. The twin head is exactly as described, two heads, one straight and one bevel cut.

A number of lease companies can be contacted and as long as they understand what the machine does, the industry it is generally used in and how Gunnar operate in terms of payment terms, you will get quotes.

I run a Gunnar 601 and my choice if I upgraded to Aiox would be - standard bed size, twin head, pen but no vacuum. If I could afford a wee more, then the larger bed first and finally vacuum.

If you are serious about going forward in the industry then get one bought. To offset the cost of the machine you need to consider the benefits. The machine is like having another employee. Customers visiting you will have a new appreciation for your business, seeing you as more professional and credible than the competition who perhaps don't have a CMC. It will easily start earning you more money, because when customers see examples of what it can do, they will buy into the idea. As an example, normal rectangular mount or rectangular mount with design modified corners could be charged out at 50p per corner extra. Straight away, with not much time difference between cutting the standard or the fancy corner mount, you make £2 or whatever you want to charge.

There are loads of Gunnar's out there and loads of support to go with it too. :rock:
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Re: CMC Size

Postby Steve N » Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:01 am

DEEPJOY wrote
"The machine is like having another employee"


I would disagree, as I have been running a CMC for 11 years, and I still have to load the machine with mountcard, and unload the mounts, you can't tell it at the beginning of the day what you what it to do and let it go and get on with it, :giggle: it doesn't go and make you a coffee or help customers load their cars with framed pictures.
On the other hand, you don't have to pay it wages / NI or paid holidays , no loo breaks or lunch breaks, you can swear at it and it will not take offence :giggle: :sweating:

You can set it to cut a whole sheet of mounts , then get on with something else while it's cutting but only for about two minutes, then you spend the next two minute clearing the waste from the machine and putting it in the dumpster :sweating: :giggle:
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Re: CMC Size

Postby Not your average framer » Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:53 am

I was at one time planning to get a CMC as well, but that's not that likely anymore. It is clear from the number of posts on this forum that many one man framing businesses are going down the CMC route and doing well.

Some even say that it is a better choice than taking on a second member of staff, but while it will be a good addition to your workshop and enable you to do more, more business will mean that you will probably be working quite a lot harder yourself.

As always, the timing of when to do this is not always an easy question, but I'm assuming that beating the brexit date will save you a useful amount of money. Whatever you decide, I hope it all works out well for you.
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