Non-45 degree cuts on a Morso..

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Non-45 degree cuts on a Morso..

Postby cleaver » Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:23 am

Morning all,

If you're ever asked to produce frames with cuts that are not 45 degrees, do you have any qualms about doing it on the Morso (e.g. would you instead send it out for chop, or do it on another bit of kit?)?

Reason I ask is a framer I did a tiny bit of work with said he once had all sorts of problems because someone moved his off 45 degrees.

When my workspace is ready, I'll have to start actually doing cuts(!) on my Morso....any tips on checking it's perfectly to true 45 degrees, please?

Ta :)
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Re: Non-45 degree cuts on a Morso..

Postby prospero » Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:07 pm

It's theoretically possible, That's why the fences are adjustable. But in practice it's a major hassle compared to 45º cuts.

For a start you can't cut both sides at once. You have to cut the rails (preferably at 90º) slightly oversize and then cut the angle.
next snag is you can't use the production stop and rule. On smaller rails you can improvise a stop on one of the fences. Otherwise
it's a pencil mark. Bear in mind the the lengths have to be spot-on. Same with the angles. On an 8-sided frame there are 16 cut faces
and any slight inaccuracy with be multiplied x8. on end and 8x on the other. If you are lucky one deviation in the angles on one end
will cancel out a deviation in the other ends, but I wouldn't rely on it. :(

You might have to do a few sacrificial test frames to calibrate the whole issue. And then the machine is committed.

On the whole, a saw is the better choice of weapon. Even then you can go skew-whiff with the angles.

If you are doing a run of identical frame then the set-up time could be absorbed but a single might need an hour or two to fiddle about.

Then you have to work out a template on paper to set it up.

If you want irregular polygons or anything weird then you could be a couple of days making one frame. :|


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Re: Non-45 degree cuts on a Morso..

Postby Steve N » Tue Feb 19, 2019 2:12 pm

I always cut a template out of MDF and cut the frame to that, also I use a saw rather than the Morso, but don't get asked to do it often, I have maybe done two in ten years
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Re: Non-45 degree cuts on a Morso..

Postby Justintime » Tue Feb 19, 2019 2:57 pm

There are angle gauges available to check/reset it after. I checked mine against the 45 mark on the morso and it was spot on, as you'd hope!
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Re: Non-45 degree cuts on a Morso..

Postby prospero » Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:34 pm

Never had much faith in angle gauges. You can set a blade to 22.5º but it doesn't mean the cut angle will be the same. :roll:

On this sort of job fractions of a degree out can = big gap in the last join. :?


Tip: Cut the frame first and then cut the contents to fit. :wink:
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Re: Non-45 degree cuts on a Morso..

Postby cleaver » Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:50 pm

Sorry folks - I wasn't being clear: I was just curious whether framers on here ever did non-45 degree cuts on their green goddess.

Being told of the mare that framer I knew had getting his Morso back to 45 degrees made me wonder if you guys concurred.

If I ever had to do a hexagonal or whatever, I think I'd use the Nobex (especially in light of these replies).

When I collected my 'pre-loved' Morso, I took the handles off, so it couldn't be knocked out of 45 degrees by accident.

BTW, I've just seen the cost of new knives :devil:

Ta for answers....very interesting as always :clap:
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Re: Non-45 degree cuts on a Morso..

Postby prospero » Tue Feb 19, 2019 6:01 pm

I made a hex frame on my Nobex when I first started. :D Just to see if I could. That was about 35 years ago and
I have never made another. Still got the frame. :P The angles were good though.
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Re: Non-45 degree cuts on a Morso..

Postby Justintime » Tue Feb 19, 2019 6:41 pm

cleaver wrote:When I collected my 'pre-loved' Morso, I took the handles off, so it couldn't be knocked out of 45 degrees by accident.

That's assuming its at 45 degrees when you picked it up! :lol:
If you search, there are quite a few posts here about setting up morsos and how from time to time its necessary to move the left fence out by a fraction of knat's whisker to get a perfect mitre.
I had a crash course over the phone with the engineer from Ashworth and Thompson, who supplied mine. I ended up cleaning and making adjustments on almost every moving part, to fault find.
The last hope was new blades, it totally rectified the issues. (My secondhand "freshly sharpened" blades were not as described! Why would you pay to resharpen before selling..)
Don't be afraid to get to know your machine intimately, with guidance. There's a fair chance that you'll be the one servicing it when required.
I re-square the fences to the measuring rule on the righthand arm from time to time, as described in the Danlist instructions. Moving parts move, even when locked in place it seems.
Also, when you change the blades after a few months, they recommend moving both fences forwards to give yourself room to maneouvre.
I was advised to keep a bit of wide moulding handy to test the trueness. A wide moulding mitre will be more obvious to see if its out.
I'm happy to be corrected, if I'm wrong on any of this.
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Re: Non-45 degree cuts on a Morso..

Postby cleaver » Tue Feb 19, 2019 7:53 pm

Great stuff, Justin :clap:
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Re: Non-45 degree cuts on a Morso..

Postby pramsay13 » Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:41 pm

I've moved my fences a few times for different reasons.
Each time before I do I mark either side with a pencil a few times so when I return it it always goes back to the exact same place.
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Re: Non-45 degree cuts on a Morso..

Postby prospero » Wed Feb 20, 2019 2:48 am

In my exp it's no good setting the fences to some ideal preset mark. The angle will vary as the blades start to dull.

The only way to get it spot-on is to tweak it as you go along. :D
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Re: Non-45 degree cuts on a Morso..

Postby Justintime » Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:00 pm

Here are a few useful links:
See page 22. https://www.thepaperframer.com/manuals/ ... tsList.pdf
http://www.morso-guillotines.dk/resources/training.html
And if you can bear the music, Rinaldin produce some useful Youtube videos like this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtzsK0S39gI
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Re: Non-45 degree cuts on a Morso..

Postby cleaver » Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:33 pm

Fantastic links - thanks again, Justin (and to everyone who's pitched in here) :clap: :clap: :clap:

Quite a legendary piece of kit, isn't it. Bit of a thrill to now actually own one....or at least be its custodian for - hopefully - a good while.
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Re: Non-45 degree cuts on a Morso..

Postby poliopete » Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:47 pm

"Bit of a thrill to now actually own one" :D

You've brought back happy memories of my first Morso (125 quids early 1970's) after cutting my frames on a "Copydex Joint Master" and tenon saw, 'could not get enough of it and used it at every opportunity. I too cut some hex frames in natural pine and framed hex cut mirror glass. I thought I was very clever and unlike prospero I even sold a few :giggle:

However, I quickly learned this was a waste of time because of how long it took to reset the fences. The thing is though by doing this sort of thing you really learn your way around a Morso.

Must add I love those Rinaldo vids that Justin linked especially the ones presented by Mal Reynolds :rock:
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Re: Non-45 degree cuts on a Morso..

Postby prospero » Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:17 pm

:D I did briefly flirt with making some octagonal mirrors. Back in the days of wallpaper-wrapped mouldings. What I
called 'Yuppie Mirrors'. The moulding was hideously expensive. :shock:

I chopped them on the Morso. Quite chunky stuff. I shaved and re-cut the angles so much that I lost a good inch from my original
target size. That's why I said cut the frames first. :lol:
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Re: Non-45 degree cuts on a Morso..

Postby cleaver » Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:33 pm

It's all becoming a bit too real, Pete. Gotta admit, the whole thing scares me a fair bit.

The more I read and learn from you guys & gals and books etc, the more I realise there's a LOT more to this than nicely joining four sticks. I already knew there was, but there is a whole LOT more.

People come to framers for advice on choices, technical knowledge, and so much more (as everyone on here will know). Without the help of people like you, prospero, Mark and all the other kind people on this forum, I wouldn't even have a chance at this new career. :clap: :clap: :clap:

I just don't want to c*** this up (apologies for this stream of consciousness wobble :oops: ).
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Re: Non-45 degree cuts on a Morso..

Postby cleaver » Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:39 pm

Prospero, following on from your last post, have mounts ever been covered in material (liberty's or whatever)?

Or am I mad!!?? :roll:
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Re: Non-45 degree cuts on a Morso..

Postby prospero » Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:55 am

Wrapping mounts (or mats) is very popular in the US. It's not that difficult if you've got the knack.

Here in Dear Old Blighty it's one of those things that has fallen out of favour. :(
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Re: Non-45 degree cuts on a Morso..

Postby cleaver » Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:58 am

LOL, I never knew that. It was just a thought that popped into my nut.

I suppose you'd lose the bevel, which would be a big downside for me. But if, say, you had a picture and wrapped the mount in material very relevant to the subject, it could be striking.
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Re: Non-45 degree cuts on a Morso..

Postby prospero » Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:13 am

Canvas/Linen wrapped liners were very popular '60s/'70s/'80s. Next time you watch a TV prog from that vintage, look at the pictures
on the walls. :lol: But like most things that are popular people eventually get sick of the sight of them. So while they do serve to enhance
the images they are just not appealing to contemporary taste. Unless you are going for the 'retro' look. :P

There used to be lots of simulated fabric mountboards on the market. Hessian, Silk, Demin, Linen in lots of colours. The only ones
I do use are some nice Silks do by Crescent which go nicely with Oriental art. I an getting to the end of my stock of these. I bought them
maybe early '90s.
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