The preocupasion of some customers with narrow mouldings on excessively large mouldings.

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Not your average framer
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The preocupasion of some customers with narrow mouldings on excessively large mouldings.

Post by Not your average framer »

What do you do about some customers who expect the narrowest possible frame moulding on a excessively large frame. Maybe there was a time when some of the narrow mouldings were made of thw much stronger wood than commonly used today, but most narrower mouldings these days are more about beating prices, rather than being strong enough for larger frames. I like to offer a sub frames as a solution to this issue, but this is a bit of a problem, when the wood used for the narrow moulding is not really solid enough to gain an adequate amount of strength when screwing into it from a sub frame and, or the depth of the narrow moulding does not permit the sub frame to be screwed into position, beacuse the rear portion of the frame has not enougth depth of moulding to be able to get a screw from the sub frame into the normal frame.

Sub frames are often good for business, as they can add extra value to the value of a framing order, but that is not the reason why I often think it necessary. I personally believe that the frame should be providing adequate support for the glass and I also don't like using narrow mouldings, with less than reasonable width of rebates to support larger pieces of glass. If we won't take care to ensure the customers safety and the long term durability of the frame, then who will? Does anyone have any guidelines regarding narrow frames and maximum sizes that such mouldings are fit to be used for? I'm presently considering putting together, something which I can print out to show customers and get them to consider the sensible options if they still want to have the skinniest possible mouldings on excessively large frames. There are times when i seriously wonder how the customer is going to get the frame home without the glass breaking.

Comments?
Mark Lacey

“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer
Richard Photofusion
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Re: The preocupasion of some customers with narrow mouldings on excessively large mouldings.

Post by Richard Photofusion »

I'd put part of the blame on the obsession with thin, and bigger screens and thinner bezels on phones, tablets, computer screens and televisions. This is the fashion, and I suspect it is edging into framing. That it isn't really practical from an engineering point of view is rather unfortunate, but does as you say, opens the options for subframes. That these may need to be fixed in the manor of a piano hinge may allow you to create something suitably value added.

When hanging shows in the gallery (oh, I remember us having shows, openings and what not...) I would just occassionally be pleased by the engineered, crafted, beautifully worked backs of frames. To me they were often as glorious as the works behing the glass.

If people are happy to drop four figures on a phone, or TV, then a well engineered (nicely premium) frame should be possible. Oak, ash, or obeche and lots of tiny little brass screws (Philps, or better, Torx, but Not slot head) could make the slim face workable. But please don't glue the package together - iFixit haven't (yet) made the frame repair kit...
Not your average framer
Posts: 11013
Joined: Sat 25 Mar, 2006 8:40 pm
Location: Devon, U.K.
Organisation: The Dartmoor Gallery
Interests: Lost causes, saving and restoring old things, learning something every day
Location: Glorious Devon

Re: The preocupasion of some customers with narrow mouldings on excessively large mouldings.

Post by Not your average framer »

Easy access for replacing broken glass, has always been a must with me, but there have been thinks I have sold through auction houses, where the ocasonal sub frame has been stapled in using a pneumatic staple gun. I used to do this with frames the customers did not want back and I often turned them into mirrors to put into the auction if the frame looked right for a mirror and I had managed too acquire some decent secondhand mirror glass to do things with.

People still give me quanities of old mirror glass from time to time. Making and selling mirrors is a pointless exercise for me, once in a while I will try a few bits and pieces in the auctions. It's not usually big money, but I like to stay in touch with what's going on at the auctions. I still sometimes buy the odd item, or two if I think that I can make it turn a profit, but it has to be the right item at the right price.

In better times, I used to wheel and deal a bit with items that I picked up in the auctions, but a lot of that market is long gone these days. I also knew who I could sell certain things too, but lots of those people have disappeared, or retired these days. Lots of large framed prints go for peanuts, but if I fancy it enough some will cut down to re-frame as triptychs, which I can put back into auctions and lots of people like triptychs, so they always make decent money.

The main market for me at auctions these days, if you can come up with the right items is the interior designers, when they are needing something special for a particular client. If you can come up with something extra special, although they don't need it, there and then. The right thing often get bought for stock, or sending up to London, where those in the know can make a decent profit. Stapling sub frames for things to sell at auctions, saves a lot of time and you don't know if you are going make the best prices in the auction, so you cheat a little and wack in the staples.
Mark Lacey

“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer
Not your average framer
Posts: 11013
Joined: Sat 25 Mar, 2006 8:40 pm
Location: Devon, U.K.
Organisation: The Dartmoor Gallery
Interests: Lost causes, saving and restoring old things, learning something every day
Location: Glorious Devon

Re: The preocupasion of some customers with narrow mouldings on excessively large mouldings.

Post by Not your average framer »

I am planning to put a notice in my shop about excessively narrow frames. I won't be bothing to stock many of these perticular moulding in the future, many of them are rubbish. Because they are so narrow, many of then do not give adequate support for the glass, but rely on the glass adding additional support to the frame. Also, because they are so narrow, the types of wood to make these mouldings, need to be of a stronger variety. However there is not much money in manufacturing mouldings such as these, when nobody wants to pay the money for them anyway.

They appear to be made of generally poor quaity and often finger jointed wood, with often very bittle finishes which are not usually the best for cutting on a Morso. Being excessively narrow, they were probably designed in the era before underpinners and were probably intented to be joined with those very narrow harden steel pins, which used to be supplied by Aquarti from the days before Aquarti became Aquadia. Which have not been available ever since.

Because the is next to no money to be made from producing such mouldings, the rebate width and the moulding depth are totally inadequate and there is not the slightest possibility of adding a subframe in the reverse of the moulding to provide some extra strength for customers, who insist on using such narrow frames on rediculously large artworks, prints and posters. Many of these mouldings are not even deep enough to allow space to add a mount inside the frame and we all probably come across old framing, where insane things have been done to fix the backing board in place, when it is hanging out the back of the frame.

Customers expect these narrow frames to result in dirt cheap framing, where as the amount of time spent on such in-adequte mouldings, filling corners because of the difficulties on getting an underpinning wedge in, far enough from the outside edge to avoid gaps in the outside of the corner joins and dealing with chipped finished after cutting on a morso. Why would I want to bother with such mouldings anymore, with a probablly really nasty recession just around the corner?

Future narrow black mouldings in my shop, will be of more adequate dimensions and where necessary on larger frames, there will be adequate depth to include a sub frame to provide the necessary additional support to adequately support the glass and the moulding will not be cheap far eastern finger jointed rubbish. Poor qualilty mouldings, which involve rediculous levels of labour, for customers who only want to pay peanuts, won't be helping businesses to survive in these difficult times and I wont be missing them!
Mark Lacey

“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer
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