Desperately Seeking Smooth Drymount Surface

[Moglet]

Not yet, Townsend. Thanks for the tip about the Arqadia product. Will add some to my next order. Presumably, it's the same method as for Fastmount?

[Townsend]

Correct......but don't give out to me if it's not to your complete satisfaction. Let me know how you get on. I am buying an Excalibur and have the intention of trying light Dibond and Hotpress transparency film (cold process) in an attempt to dry mount glossies to my satisfaction.

[Moglet]

Spotted your Excalibur post just now. Lurrrrrve my toblerone.

No probs, will update you when I've had a play (will pop some on my next order). Welcome feedback from your direction, too. Steve G has very kindly sent me a training DVD and some stuff to "watch and play." Looking forward to receiving it. I really would like to get more value out of my press. (I do keep saying that, don't I... )

[Townsend]

I have been thinking about this during the day, and have wondered if Steve G has ever mounted anything bigger, more valuable or with a more sensitive surface than the A4 prints he mounts on a day to day basis at demos of the Hotpress machines. Perhaps he has, but today I did wonder! Because every second day I too get scared before putting stuff through my vacuum press.

[Moglet]

I ... have wondered if Steve G has ever mounted anything bigger, more valuable or with a more sensitive surface than the A4 prints he mounts on a day to day basis at demos of the Hotpress machines.

I'd say it's a safe bet that anyone who has posted techniques here for "steam-ironing" watercolours knows his technical onions rather well!

Because every second day I too get scared before putting stuff through my vacuum press.

I feel comforted by knowing it's not just me that suffers from "press-o-phobia".

[Roboframer]

I'd say it's a safe bet that anyone who has posted techniques here for "steam-ironing" watercolours knows his technical onions rather well!

Gizza link!

[Moglet]

Certainly. Technique is described in thread below.

http://theframersforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2241

[Jared Davis CPF, GCF]

Hi guys,

Sorry, should have posted this a month ago... but only read this thread now...

Be wary of permanently drymounting to acrylic ... acylic is "hygroscopic" (absorbs moisture) and thus not dimenisionally stable - much like MDF... so what may "look good" today, may become bowed and distorted in 6 months time, depending on where the unsealed, rear side of the acylic is exposed.

Static mount to acrylic is safer... but can be unreliable long term as well...

Personally, if you want the smooth, mirror mounting finish with no "orange peel" effect, typical of foamboards - I would recommend using dry mount film, on a piece of 2mm Di-Bond (sign grade aluminium sheeting from Alcan Composites), with release film on top.

Gatorfoam is OK too, as it is dimensionally stable, but I recommend lightly sanding the surface first to remove the small pips.... and then cleaning it with film cleaner before mounting.

If you take the "cheap" option and mount on a pressure senstive foamboard - then mount it very lightly (low pressure) so you don't encourage too much of the natural deformations of the foamboard surface (orange peel effect) to come through...

Cheers,

Jared

[Townsend]

Thanks for that Jared. Are you suggeting a cold rolls or hot vacuum process? What is your opinion of using Hotpress transparency film (usually used for mounting over the face of a photograph and to the back of a piece of acrylic) to cold mount on to Dibond? It has been suggested to me that the transparency film should give an even smoother finish than dry mount film.

[Jared Davis CPF, GCF]

Hi,

The information I provided above was only referring to using a Hot Press/drymounting ... as that was the original focus of this thread.

However, if you really want to mount super-glossy photos (cibachromes, ilfochromes, fuji-flex) perfectly & professionally - you really need to use pressure sensitive rollers (cold!). Avoid using heat all together.

For pressure sensitive mounting (cold) you CAN use the same substrates (Dibond, Gatorfoam, etc), but you must use different adhesives and different machines.

Pressure sensitive facemounting transparency film is definitely the smoothest film available for mounting super-glossy photos onto di-bond ... and is definitely smoother than dry mount film.... but once again this process is "cold" (using rollers) whereas the focus of this topic was originally "hot" (dry mounting)...

You CANNOT use pressure sensitive/cold films in a Hot Glass Vacuum Press & vise versa.

You CANNOT use pressure sensitive/cold films for this process "by hand" either...

Cheers,

Jared

[Steve Goodall]

Hi Jared,

Glad to see you chipping in here mate - you're observations are spot on - by the way - how the devil are you???
Give my regards to Alex & Sue and all the gang at Megawood - you are my "very - most - special - favourite" people in OZ!!!
Love you all - Steve

[Moglet]

Hi Steve,

Big "thankyou" for the goodies! Not had time to play with them yet, but looking forward to it.

[Jared Davis CPF, GCF]

G'day Steve!

I was just thinking of you recently, probably working hard at SACA - on the "Hot Pies" stand!

Cheers,

Jared

[Martin Harrold]

As you know, I don't use this Forum to plug our products. However, it does seem appropriate to mention the Fomex and DiBond type panels on p.45 of the new edition, No.45, of our catalogue. (Note that there is an error, the DiBond is 3mm not 5mm). DiBond is two sheets of white faced aluminium with a plastc core. It is absolutely flat and stays flat. The surface of Fomex is flat but the panel can take a slight bow.

These are materials common in the sign trade and are usually used with cold mounting and laminating rather than a heated press. They can be tricky to cut, you'll need a Fletcher or Keencut wall mounted cutter or similar. We've added them to our range as an experiment, so feedback appreciated.

The type of image in question, with deep pools of black, will always be a challenge to mount. I think that you might be wise getting it done by a pro - but ask if you can watch him do it - you'll learn a lot.

[framejunkie]

DiBond and, to a lesser extent, Fomex are being used a great deal in London for fine art photography applications, especially for larger-scale works. These products have made the leap to the fine art industry as a large number of artists are making photos of a size that most framing companies cannot handle for mounting, so lots of the mounting is being done by the sign trade - they are well used to dealing with large glossy works for advertising etc.
These works are often presented in galleries unframed with a sub-frame or split battens to float them off the wall, but i frame quite a few shadow-floated in box frames. DiBond is quite heavy so the larger one have to be quite substantial constructions.

[Moglet]

...Fomex and DiBond type panels on p.45 of the new edition, No.45, of our catalogue. (Note that there is an error, the DiBond is 3mm not 5mm).

I spotted the above in the new catalogue. Would be very interested to hear about plans for making the above available to Irish customers, Martin.

[penfold]

appropriate to mention the Fomex and DiBond type panels on p.45 of the new edition, No.45, of our catalogue.

Martin, are you making any recommendations as to which adhesive/s to use with the DiBond?

[Martin Harrold]

Adhesives - the Zenith materials on p.67 are generally ideal for use with DiBond, although my good friend Steve Goodall will tell you, rightly, that the Hot Press cold mounting materials are equally good.

As for hanging a flat panel with mounted image, which was all the rage at the big, trend setting, Photokina show in Koln in September, take a look at the self-adhesive plates on p.106. These are German made and well proven over many years, and they are adjustable to help you level the item. Tip with self-adhesive hangers - don't clean the surface with washing up liquid as it has surfactants which reduce the bond strength. Always clean with lighter fluid or meths, or similar.

And for Ireland, for the moment, talk to your local signmaker for supplies - we simply cannot safely ship these panels in small quantities.

[James Miller]

I recently received a new product from the KoolTack company, called the "Perma Lon" permanent release board. This is a 32" x 40" x 1/16" sheet of transparent Lexan with some sort of slippery release material attached to one side. It comes with a limited ten-year guarantee. Yes, you can see through it.

According to Len Lastuck of KoolTack, the "Perma Lon" release board is recommended for use only in low-temperature dry mounting, as temperatures above 200 degrees-F would degrade the adhesive used on the board itself. Also, care must be taken to avoid scratching the working side of it.

Kool Tack offers foam center boards prepared with 150 degree-F adhesive, and the results have been excellent. When used in my vacuum press, I have experienced no "orange peel" at all, even on glossy photographs. The adhesive on the foam center boards is thermoplastic, so the bond may be reversed with re-application of heat.

The phone number for this Elkhart, Indiana, USA company is 1-800-777-3165, and the web address is http://www.kooltack.com/.

I have not seen anything like this before. Does any similar product exist in the UK or elsewhere?

[Moglet]

Hi Townsend,

Apologies for delay in replying to this thread. Thanks for your tip about Arqadia Photo-fix board. Used it for the job in question, and used vacuum-only on the press, and got a much better result than mounting onto other substrates.