compo ornaments / moulds

[grahamg]

Hi all,

After about a year away being busy with real life - building houses, new jobs, dull stuff like that - I'm back! I've just spent a few days in Rome and have been inspired again to try out some new framing techniques, and in particular using compo ornaments to create more ornate frames. I'm aware of Bomar Design in America, but was wondering if anyone had any suppliers / supplies closer to home? For example if you have a collection of moulds or ornaments that you don't use, I'd be interested in purchasing some, or if you can give me some useful information that would be hugely appreciated!

Best wishes,

Graham

[A3DFramer]

Do you want to follow the traditional path or create new designs? I did a lot of mould making, but mostly with flexible moulding compounds, that were backed with rigid outers where necessary. The traditional approach and the pathway for pure restoration/reproduction would be rigid moulds, carved out of wood, are these the types of moulds you are looking for?

I have found plenty of people eager to scoff at the use of modern materials in restoration, which tends to blind them to routes of more advanced techniques. Most of the moulding used on the Bomar front page could be reproduced quite easily in a small craft workshop, the marketing and creation of a customer base that will give a reasonable return on the initial modelling is their strength.

When I retired all my moulds were destroyed, it was cheaper than storing them till someone came up with a decent price. I can't tell you where to learn the techniques, as I taught myself, but if that is a path that you are prepared to follow then I might be able to offer some pointers, if I know the direction you wish to travel.

[prospero]

I have dabbled with making moulds in the past and it's not as easy as it might appear. Carving them out of wood is a great skill. And you need the right kind of wood (Boxwood seems to be the favourite). But you need more than one or it's going to be a long-winded exercise casting the ornaments. You might be able to carve a nice one, but could you carve a dozen? All identical?
Of course you can carve a positive ornament and take hard casts off that. You can't really take a cast off a frame and use that as the ornaments are cast flat and then steamed to soften them so they can be moulded into a corner.
People who actually have sets of the original wooden moulds tend to guard them jealously.

All in all, unless you are going to do it on a big scale it's easier to get a frame made. Frinton Gallery will make you just about any pattern you want.

[prospero]

Lion do some 'Pasta' ornaments. Here's one I did earlier....



bigger image

That one comes in two parts - left and right handed. The moulding already had the running pattern, I made a jig to rout out a flat section to lay the ornaments on. A lot of blending and sanding involved.
The result was very pleasing IMHO. But although it was an interesting exercise the time taken didn't really make it a viable prospect.

[JFeig]

Most compo ornaments are used the the furniture industry. I would try to look for sources for that industry.

BTY, The largest compo company in the US is Decorators Supplies in Chicago. They have a wonderful archive of over 10,000 original carvings from the 1880's-1900's

[grahamg]

Thanks all! A3DFramer, gutted that you threw them out...

I'm certainly not going to go down the route of carving my own moulds - I made a palladian eared frame a while ago with egg and dart decoration that I carved myself, which is an experience I don't want to repeat! It looks ok from a distance, but close up, it's a little messy. I think in the first instance, I'd like to try ready-made pasta / compo decorations (corner mouldings etc) and then work up from there. I'd always hoped I could take casts from existing frames, but sounds like that won't work well, so it looks like I'm going to have to have some stuff shipped over from America, unless anyone unearths a little stash closer to home.

Thanks again for the advice,

Graham

[vintage frames]

I have a number of compo moulds and would be interested in selling individual compo castings, if there is a market. Most are running patterns and are 12 to18inch lenght. I need to photgraph them first and decide on a useful production price but if anyone is interested, please say.

[prospero]

The most useful ones for me would be the little thin leaves. On a fairly plain rounded moulding they look really cool. They are also useful on ornate frames with a running pattern to disguise the pattern mismatch on a corner.

I used to get 'pasta' ones from Renaissance Mouldings, but they tended to vary quite a lot and were about a quid each.

[grahamg]

Vintage frames, I'm very interested! Would be great to see some pics if possible.

[Not your average framer]

would be interested in selling individual compo castings, if there is a market.

I would say that you've found a good niche in the market. Where else can you go for compo ornaments in the UK? I don't think there is anywhere!

[vintage frames]

Thanks for your interest in my compo castings, I'll make some up and photograph them with sizing and prices.

[grahamg]

Brilliant, thanks vintage frames, really looking forward to seeing them!

[Evgeni Tanov]

Hi there ,
Iamalso looking tobuy compo ornaments or molds so I can make casts out of them.
I am located in Bulgaria and trying to find supliers in Europe-gold leaf ,gilding materials, compo ornaments,shelac flakes.
I used to live in the States and was ordering everyting from one place in NY.Now it is very expensive if i want to keep doing this.
Thank you all
Evgeni

[Not your average framer]

Finding information about creating your own compo ornament moulds is far from easy. I've tried to do it , by doing what seems to make sense and there's a lot involved with it, also some bits which look like they would be easy were very much more difficult than I had expected. I did not have access to commercially produced compo ornaments, so I used ornaments salvaged off of old frames. There's a bit of technique in removing old compo ornaments from old frames and it takes quite a lot of practice, plus trial and error, before you get any good at it. Generally most old ornamentation has been heated and then moulded to be a good fit to the profile of the frame. Getting the originally flat rear surface of the ornamentation back to flat again is very important if you are intending to take a cast from the moulding and then remove your own moulded ornamentation from the mould.

A lot of the process is largely guesswork, but you do get better, after you are tried it a few times. If you are pressing heated compo into the mould it will take quite a bit of force to press the compo into the mould and to accurately reproduce every detail. You also need to know when the compo is thoroughly heated to an appropriate temperature for long enough. Sorry, but that's more guesswork as well. I had to used an old cast iron heavy duty bookbinding press and although my press has the two inch diameter operating screw, with good long operating handles, the force obtainable required considerable physical strength. This is when you start to realise that your mould has to able to withstand some serious force without suffering damange. I am not saying don't do this, but if you are serious about this be prepared to put plenty of work into the preparation.

Also you will need to re-cast your mould every now and then from your original pattern, because the pressure eventually takes it's toll. I took the first casting from the original ornament, using a flexible two part mould making resin. This save wrecking the original ornament. Next you have to cast a new pattern to take your production mould from and this mould needs to be very strong. The new pattern need to be fixed to a piece of 6mm MDF which needs to be screwed onto the wooden outer frame to the mould. I slighty overfill the mould with the final casting resin and leave it to set overnight and sand the back flush on a belt sander, before fixing the wooden back in place. Then it is time to remove the new pattern and it's backing board from the other end. Not really a lot of fun and quite messy with lots of dust from sanding the resin flush at the back.

My mould release substance is washing up liquid which is brushed over the pattern and the patterns backing board and then placed into the deep freeze so that the washing up liquid freezes solid. The pattern and backing board need to be sealed with a thin waterproof sealer and when dry I rub petroleum jelly over the surface before assembling the mould and brush on the washing up liquid. If this all sounds easy, believe me it's not. I'm not disappointed that I have not been asked for a ornamental frame for several years. Making your own compo ornaments is clearly not for the faint hearted. I did this for a while and the results were not bad, taking a mould of off old frame ornamentation is not the same as direct from an original wood carving. If you are wanting top quality results, then taking a mould of a mould of yet another mould, well something gets lost along the way.