Home working

Financial, legal, advertising, pricing, marketing, accountancy, bookkeeping, employment, taxation, etc.
Post Reply
WannabeFramer
Posts: 190
Joined: Fri 17 Feb, 2023 11:20 am
Location: Wales
Organisation: Arlais Framing
Interests: Arts, crafts, framing and walking

Home working

Post by WannabeFramer »

Thanks for indulging my many questions over the last few weeks.

I have ‘opened my doors’ to the public and have been really encouraged by the response, but I can already see issues I need to address as my customer base (hopefully) grows. Mainly around how to manage my being based at home.

I have all my equipment upstairs. It is not a room I wish to take customers because (a) it feels intrusive stepping that far into our house, (b) it is a shared space with our other jobs, (c) potential immobility/insurance/legal issues and (d) is very cramped and chaotic.

So far I have either let people into my living room (and had to make sure kids/dog are out the way), or been to their house to collect items. It doesn’t feel very professional.

I am not in position to be able to rent premises, so I’m trying to think how to look more professional moving forward.

I could build a garden ‘studio’, so people do not need to come through my front door, but max size is 15 x 8 foot. Expensive, and I I would be worried about storage unless it was top spec insulation/heating which I can’t afford. I suppose it would only be for displays and samples so might not be an issue. But, I have been told it could potentially open up my house to some sort of business rates.

I need to sort insurance this week and am not really sure what I currently count as.

How do others at based home manage?

I am mainly thinking of ‘front-of-house’ side, not the workshop equipment as that is quite happy in the spare room (not carrying the Morso downstairs again anytime soon!!)
vintage frames
Posts: 1349
Joined: Tue 12 Jun, 2012 6:05 pm
Location: West Wales
Organisation: https://www.dermotmcardle.co.uk/
Interests: Making picture frames
Contact:

Re: Home working

Post by vintage frames »

I would definitely go for the garden studio idea.
It doesn't have to be hi-spec. A good-sized garden shed will do.
The thing is, customers are always going to feel a little uncomfortable about stepping into your home.
They won't be able to help themselves from noticing everything they see within. And they'll start making judgements.
"Who buys a carpet like that? I wouldn't have chosen that wall-paper. What's that odd smell?"

With a garden studio, the space is entirely neutral. You can conduct your business in a purely transactional basis and have no lifestyle distractions.
This also gives the customer a little more confidence that they're not just dealing with a hobby framer.
Affordable Gilding Course for Professional Framers-https://www.dermotmcardle.co.uk/
https://www.instagram.com/dermotmcardle/
WannabeFramer
Posts: 190
Joined: Fri 17 Feb, 2023 11:20 am
Location: Wales
Organisation: Arlais Framing
Interests: Arts, crafts, framing and walking

Re: Home working

Post by WannabeFramer »

Thank you.

The smell is a concern, particularly with an elderly dog who can be - ahem - a little unhygienic at times. I am paranoid we are nose blind despite our best efforts at cleaning. Also, the house is a long term renovation and at best described as shabby.

A studio style shed would be more achievable than a fully insulated office.

On Friday I was waiting for a customer and getting really stressed as I looked at everything with fresh eyes, and not a feeling I want to have each visit so need to do something.

My business mentor told me that as soon as I have customers anywhere near my house I have to register for NDR (business rates). Someone else told me different.I am aware of small business rate relief which would reduce to zero if so, but I am a bit wary of opening a can of worms with the council without being sure of exactly what it is I am operating. Also whether I would need separate insurance for an outbuilding.

Do you know anything about that side?
vintage frames
Posts: 1349
Joined: Tue 12 Jun, 2012 6:05 pm
Location: West Wales
Organisation: https://www.dermotmcardle.co.uk/
Interests: Making picture frames
Contact:

Re: Home working

Post by vintage frames »

Ignore them all!
You're not yet at the stage where you need to be worrying about business rates.
The local council would be more than delighted to plug you into their bureaucracy and suffocate you with regulations and costs.

When you get to the stage where you're actually earning a living from this business then you can involve yourself with all the necessary parasitic palaver.

And if you get to the stage of having to pay tax and rates, then at least you will be running a profitable and successful business.
Affordable Gilding Course for Professional Framers-https://www.dermotmcardle.co.uk/
https://www.instagram.com/dermotmcardle/
WannabeFramer
Posts: 190
Joined: Fri 17 Feb, 2023 11:20 am
Location: Wales
Organisation: Arlais Framing
Interests: Arts, crafts, framing and walking

Re: Home working

Post by WannabeFramer »

I am pondering while walking said elderly dog.

A big concern is making sure I have adequate insurance, and not inadvertently cause either the business ore domestic side to become void.

I will make enquiries to my insurance company tomorrow, I am just wary of them kicking up a fuss before I really know what it is I need.
WannabeFramer
Posts: 190
Joined: Fri 17 Feb, 2023 11:20 am
Location: Wales
Organisation: Arlais Framing
Interests: Arts, crafts, framing and walking

Re: Home working

Post by WannabeFramer »

vintage frames wrote: Sun 14 May, 2023 10:31 am Ignore them all!
You're not yet at the stage where you need to be worrying about business rates.
The local council would be more than delighted to plug you into their bureaucracy and suffocate you with regulations and costs.

When you get to the stage where you're actually earning a living from this business then you can involve yourself with all the necessary parasitic palaver.

And if you get to the stage of having to pay tax and rates, then at least you will be running a profitable and successful business.
Thank you, I cross posted.

I work for the council and yup, bureaucracy abounds!

Thank you, very wise words. A wage seems a long way off yet, but one day, one day…
User avatar
JKX
Posts: 392
Joined: Sun 08 Jan, 2023 10:25 pm
Location: West Sussex
Organisation: None - retired
Interests: Gardening. Walking. DIY. Retired framer of 20 plus years, keeping my hand in.

Re: Home working

Post by JKX »

I started from home - garage, opened a shop 3 years later. That first shop was too small to incorporate a workshop so it stayed in the garage for another three years until we expanded in to something much larger.

We thought it best to cover ourselves and wrote to the council with our intentions and to ask if we needed any planning permission. They said no, as long as parking was not a problem - but we'd already said we would be working on collection & delivery, which worked really well.
There were no Non Domnestic Rates applicable, for that you would have to have a change of usage for the property, you can't pay both domestic and non domestic rates on the same place.

What you may, and probably should have to do though, is arrange for non domestic waste collection, otherwise the local tip will eventually start asking questions after seeing you every week with lots of cardboard!

There are framers with vans kitted out as frame showrooms - I just used a wallpaper table covered inside and out with display fabric - that carried a lot of samples. Then a case full of the rest, mount board samples, order book, measuring tape etc etc. These days of course you could also use a tablet to show samples from suppliers' websites, photos of previous jobs - plus any pricing software you may take on.

After a while, if it all goes wrong, you'd make a great taxi driver, you'll know the area so well!

I've google-stalked you - Llandod! (Llandrindod Wells) - there is an annual reunion I go to (well used to - haven't been since 2015) in the Metropole!
John Turner

The ex framer Formerly Known As RoboFramer.
Justintime
Posts: 1868
Joined: Sat 26 Sep, 2015 8:48 am
Location: West Wales
Organisation: George The Framer LLP
Interests: Gardening, design, electronic music, good food and beverages.
Contact:

Re: Home working

Post by Justintime »

A well "dressed" garden shed would make a great design/consultation space. One of my workshop sheds was a bog standard tongue and groove clad sheds which as soon as was necessary I membraned and reclad with larch, it now looks like quite a stylish building from the outside! As far as I can see, there aren't many if any mobile framers in the UK but plenty in the US. I don't see why it can't work here. Many customers are more than happy to send photos of their work prior to visiting me, so my design ideas are working before they get here. The only difficulty I can foresee is that you are at the mercy of their space, having a big and clean enough table space too measure and design on a kitchen table etc.
Insurance-wise, if visiting your property, the bare minimum you need is public liability, to cover you if they trip over your dog and break a leg for example. Insuring their work is also important! A plan chest in your centrally heated house is the safest bet.
Trade waste collections, your council will offer this. My council says that they do not collect trade waste from residential properties, but they do. The fine for not committing to some kind of waste contract, private or council is high.
Justin George GCF(APF)
Insta: georgetheframer
JFeig
Posts: 1285
Joined: Thu 23 Sep, 2004 8:31 pm
Location: Detroit, Michigan USA
Organisation: minoxy, LLC
Interests: non-fiction knowledge
Contact:

Re: Home working

Post by JFeig »

The main by-product of our industry is 3 items, paper, wood scraps and glass. At least 2 of these can be compacted to reduce their volume.

Glass can be placed into a 20l oil can and crushed with a long handle sledge hammer and then placed into a smaller container into the trash.
Paper and cardboard can be compacted as well by using an old fashioned farm jack set up above an appropiate container. Depending on the quantity, wood can go into the gardens cooking grill when it is not used for actual cooking.
Jerome Feig CPF®
http://www.minoxy.com
WannabeFramer
Posts: 190
Joined: Fri 17 Feb, 2023 11:20 am
Location: Wales
Organisation: Arlais Framing
Interests: Arts, crafts, framing and walking

Re: Home working

Post by WannabeFramer »

Thank you all. :-) It has been a busy day so just catching up on admin.

To come back on the points raised.

I like the idea of a garden studio (shed), and have been looking at some 'off'-the-peg' options. It could be doable, although husband is less keen as it would mean walking down the side alley which is the only place to store the many dustbins and recycling boxes our council insist on. It would need to be quite low spec as going for insulation etc. is way out of our league. We can get a nice looking 'studio' with full length glazing (styrene) for £1400ish, which is still a stretch for us at present and not particularly winter-proof so a lot to think about.

I have also started exploring any local rooms or shared spaces available to hire and have had a couple of options worth exploring, where I could meet customers completely off the premises, maybe for a small fee rather than having to pay up front for a garden building. Possibly still too expensive at the moment but worth exploring, if only to discount it.

I do actually have a van so transport for some kind of mobile option isn't unrealistic. I would need to think carefully as it is generally a skip on wheels with added dog hair..... and also a half-converted camper meaning I am unable to have business use. But not discounting the option of travelling to people, although I would need to factor in mileage costs.

For waste, Wessex gave me the option of a glass waste box which could be collected when full for (I think) £35 a year which I haven't thought much further about. I haven't really had much glass waste yet. Cardboard I have actually been using as kindling on our woodburner but not so much need for that now, same for the moulding trims unless there are plastic coatings. Our council trade waste is very expensive and I don't generate much at the moment, not enough to justify a trade dustbin. We actually live close to a skip company where you can take separated trade waste for disposal, charged by the weight so I will look into that.

Insurance - I am on the case with public liability, product liability and checking my home insurance conditions. I think I need to add my equipment onto the business side as I think it is void on my home contents.

JXK - I know The Met well being a mere 5 minutes walk away (The Arvon opposite is better for beer :wink: ) Many an office lunch was partaken there - although not so much since we now all work from home.

I have lots to think about! Thank you once again.
swany
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed 15 Sep, 2021 9:31 pm
Location: Dublin
Organisation: PC framing
Interests: framing & photography

Re: Home working

Post by swany »

As a fellow home framer my set up is as follows as you come in my front door there is a door to my office on the left that keeps my main house separate. I recently re-did this office knowing it was going to be a public space. In the office I have a meet & greet desk to view the art work, my desk for PC etc & my large printer & CMC. this is also where I show & house my chevrons & samples.
The framing is all done in the shed out back which holds the morso & under pinner along with all the other dust producing tools.
I have a room upstairs above the office that i use for cutting glass, mounting the work and assembly.

The new office is a great benefit as it keeps the dog away from the public & keeps your home private. I think you would be well advised to build a shed to the side of the house or access by the side to a rear garden shed. It will also put your head in the right space when dealing with clients but also allows your clients to take you seriously. When you have this space you will be more inclined to push yourself to generate more work.

hope this helps

Regards
Justintime
Posts: 1868
Joined: Sat 26 Sep, 2015 8:48 am
Location: West Wales
Organisation: George The Framer LLP
Interests: Gardening, design, electronic music, good food and beverages.
Contact:

Re: Home working

Post by Justintime »

What swany said!
Justin George GCF(APF)
Insta: georgetheframer
WannabeFramer
Posts: 190
Joined: Fri 17 Feb, 2023 11:20 am
Location: Wales
Organisation: Arlais Framing
Interests: Arts, crafts, framing and walking

Re: Home working

Post by WannabeFramer »

Apologies, I have only just seen the latest replies!

Yes, I think a garden studio/display area (aka posh shed) is going to be the way forward. It really isn't great in the front room and I have to stop myself apologising to customers for the set up. I took some time to have a look at potential premises but will be remaining at home for the foreseeable.

We can have access down the side of the house to the back garden, so are looking at 10 x 6 glazed sheds/summer houses that can double up as an artist studio should hubby have any visitors. Having seen a couple in the flesh, that size will allow for a decent sized table and a chair or two, plus plenty of display space. Everything else will be done in the house as it is at the moment.

Onwards and upwards!
Justintime
Posts: 1868
Joined: Sat 26 Sep, 2015 8:48 am
Location: West Wales
Organisation: George The Framer LLP
Interests: Gardening, design, electronic music, good food and beverages.
Contact:

Re: Home working

Post by Justintime »

My only thought is if you can go to a 10x8 or 10x10 shed. My design table is 120cms wide, but I think you'd want 100cms , by the time you have a few pieces of work on it, some mountboard samples and some space to work it all out.
Justin George GCF(APF)
Insta: georgetheframer
WannabeFramer
Posts: 190
Joined: Fri 17 Feb, 2023 11:20 am
Location: Wales
Organisation: Arlais Framing
Interests: Arts, crafts, framing and walking

Re: Home working

Post by WannabeFramer »

That is a good shout, but hubby would need to agree and we have come to a compromise, bearing in mind he has been pretty much evicted from the 'framing room' to a corner downstairs to make way for the Morso etc...... He kind of gets the final say on this one.

Our garden is titchy and he wants to put the new building next to the existing shed, so the space is limited to 10b x 6 really. Ideally I would get rid of the shed and replace with a much bigger studio, but that sets off a chain reaction of other jobs that would need doing - like replacing the fence and landscaping. Sadly that requires time and money, both of which we don't currently have.

I'm sure I can make it look sufficiently posh and who knows where we will be in a year or so.
Trinity
Posts: 688
Joined: Wed 06 Jan, 2010 8:01 pm
Location: Yorkshire England
Organisation: Trinity Framing
Interests: Classic Tractors, Honda Blackbird, Eunos, anything with an engine
Contact:

Re: Home working

Post by Trinity »

Regarding insurance NFU will bolt on a home worker element to the house and buildings insurance for a couple of hundred pound, which gives you ample third party liability and damage and materials etc
Do not be afraid of strangers, for thereby many have entertained angels unawares.
Post Reply