Wastage continued & RMFs

[Glimpse]

If you want teach artists how to do some basic home framing and mountcutting, I think you would get people who want to learn and afterwards, might buy so off cuts and left overs from you. It could be worth sounding out the market to see if it would be worth doing.

That's probably the daftest thing I've read on this forum. Would a mechanic teach people how to service their own cars just so he could sell spark-plugs to them? Would a joiner teach someone his craft so he could sell a few nails?

Absolutely not... Stupid idea.

If you're so quiet that you need to find ways to fill your time, perhaps consider giving talks to groups about the merits of professional framing and outline how much more involved it can be than most people think... But teaching amateurs to take work off us is the dumbest thing I've ever heard!

[prospero]

Yes, that is a good point.

Although they frequently get it all round their necks and come crawling back wanting you to do a properly.

One customer of mine decided to do it himself. He wasn't too bad at at actually. But he came to the conclusion that it
took up far too much time. He even gave me his mitre saw, two mitre vices and and all his moulding. Which was nice.

There's more than one way of educating people.

[Not your average framer]

Forget about margins and concentrate on pounds per hour

I knew this makes a lot of sense, but it's just too easy to think that this won't take long, so it won't matter all that much. The fact is that some of us aren't always good at sticking to stuff like this. I also don't mind to much when customers pop in for a chat.

It seems funny that now I've become a pensioner that I'm trying to do something about getting my act together, so that I can get more time off. Don't ask me why it didn't happen before!

[Jamesnkr]

I tend to think when people start doing courses it's because they have lost interest
in the subject they are teaching.

You're probably right. On the other hand there are some quite big names who started out teaching, and some who taught all their lives.

Newcastle Art School (King's College, Durham that later became the University of Newcastle), for instance, had some quite big names on the staff in the post-war period. Sir Lawrence Gowing, Victor Pasmore, Richard Hamilton, Kenneth Rowntree. Leeds School of Art had Terry Frost - who had come from Bath Academy.

[kartoffelngeist]

Couple of thoughts...

I'm not convinced that Glimpse's understanding of the situation is completely accurate - there are more factors to take in to account.

As prospero says, people will come in when they've made a mess of it. They'll also have a better idea of what's possible even if it's outside of their skillset, in which case they'll come to you.
Teaching something also automatically gives the teacher a higher level of esteem. This framer teaches people, so he must be better than the one who doesn't. Not necessarily true, but could definitely be perceived that way.

Apart from anything else, there's going to be a different customer base. The people who come on a course to learn beginner level framing won't be spending much with you on framing, they'll mostly be trying to frame their own work. I really can't imagine anyone losing customers by teaching people how to do it themselves. I think the esteem and publicity gained would far outweigh any loss.

Also, there's nothing like teaching a subject to help you learn and improve yourself.

If you see framing as just putting four bits of wood round a picture then I can see why teaching courses would worry you. I imagine most framers would feel they have enough knowledge, skill, and experience to not become obsolete after teaching some basic framing!

[Glimpse]

Teaching something also automatically gives the teacher a higher level of esteem. This framer teaches people, so he must be better than the one who doesn't. Not necessarily true, but could definitely be perceived that way.

I suspect this (VERY misguided) belief is the sole reason certain members of this forum want to teach!

If you see framing as just putting four bits of wood round a picture then I can see why teaching courses would worry you. I imagine most framers would feel they have enough knowledge, skill, and experience to not become obsolete after teaching some basic framing!

If you're teaching framing to amateur artists, craftspeople etc, then it's unlikely you'll be covering anything particularly complicated. But the uncomplicated "four-bits-of-wood-around-a-picture" is very profitable and what most high street framers would consider their "bread and butter". Teaching crafty folk with time on their hands how to do it themselves is commercial suicide! You'll end up with them kitting out their garage and under-cutting you!

I diversified into framing a few years ago after looking at several other business models that I could set up in my existing premises. One of the main reasons I chose framing was that it cost so little to set up and could be "self taught". The last thing I'm going to do is show my own potential customers how easy it would be for them to do the same!!!

[kartoffelngeist]

Curious why you think it's VERY misguided. Not been my experience in other fields.

I disagree with you on the rest of the post too, but no point arguing unless anyone has some figures to back up their thoughts - I don't.

[Glimpse]

Crack on then, and let us know how you get on. I won't be doing it in my town though!

I'll just continue chucking 4 bits of wood at the paintings, prints and embroideries brought in by my local craft group members and charging them for the privilege!

[Not your average framer]

Not everyone does something because that the way they originally planned it. Sometimes things develop and people do something different. Some time ago there was a discussion about having a hand finishing get together and there would have been some demonstrations at this event. For one reason, or another it evolved along the way and it became a training event, which was run at the town hall here in Bovey Tracey by myself.

People don't realise this, but it only happened at all, because of the number of people who wanted a training event. There never was a repeat of this event, but within this industry there are individuals and organisations who provide training for others wanting training as framers. I was trained by two well known trainers, which were Mike Royall and Pete Bingham.

These are just two examples of people who started out as framers and ended up training others. There were a couple locally who ran a framering shop and taught art as well. If it makes sense, gets a fair wind and becomes sucessful, it may continue. If those who do this find that they enjoy this, they may really want it to continue, but it does not necesarily mean that there was a clear intention and plan for anything like this earlier at all.

Sometimes things that are considered as not making much sense, become something with a future!