Trimming down a print

Ask for and give assistance
DaveJ
Posts: 199
Joined: Fri 27 Feb, 2015 7:02 pm
Location: Chesham, Bucks.
Organisation: FrameCraft
Interests: Picture Framing.

Trimming down a print

Post by DaveJ » Fri 12 Oct, 2018 3:33 pm

Sunflower.jpg
Sunflower.jpg (482.09 KiB) Viewed 2523 times
Hi again, I have a large (and expensive) print to frame there is lots of space around the image which obviously means a lot of space between image and mount or a wide mount. Personally I prefer a mount to come close in to the image but haven't really come across this problem before. Does the artist design them with the intention/possibility to be trimmed down, is there supposed to be lots of space around the image? I know its personal taste but you get what I mean!?! Is it the done thing to trim an expensive piece, help/input appreciated! Thank you.

User avatar
Tudor Rose
Posts: 827
Joined: Wed 10 Mar, 2010 4:07 pm
Location: Dawlish, South Devon
Organisation: The Framing Lot
Interests: Tudor history, swimming, walking and needlework.
Contact:

Re: Trimming down a print

Post by Tudor Rose » Fri 12 Oct, 2018 4:25 pm

It is not the done thing to trim down a print, especially an expensive one - that changes the condition of the artwork and for prints it it likely to devalue them on the secondary market. Same for folding them or sticking them down. And although your prints doesn't have borders - the advice would be the same for one that did have.

For mounting and framing this one, if you give a nice bit of space around the image and then a good wide mount it will look great. You're going to want to give a reasonable amount of space to include the title, edition number and signature, so a balancing amount around the rest of the image should work fine and won't look too large.

If the customer insists that it should be trimmed then you need to explain the reasons why it isn't a good idea. If they still insist, and you are happy to do it, then get them to sign a disclaimer that shows you explained it to them and it was their choice to trim it down.
Jo Palmer GCF(APF) Adv (Textile & Conservation)

Proud to be serving as current Chair & Master of
The Fine Art Trade Guild http://www.fineart.co.uk
Member of the Guild and the PPFA

DaveJ
Posts: 199
Joined: Fri 27 Feb, 2015 7:02 pm
Location: Chesham, Bucks.
Organisation: FrameCraft
Interests: Picture Framing.

Re: Trimming down a print

Post by DaveJ » Fri 12 Oct, 2018 6:53 pm

Thank you TR that's really very helpful just what I wanted to hear thanks again.

User avatar
David McCormack
Posts: 1407
Joined: Tue 02 Aug, 2011 10:14 am
Location: South Lakes
Organisation: Framing
Interests: Cycling, walking, darkroom photography and laughing a lot!
Location: Cumbria

Re: Trimming down a print

Post by David McCormack » Fri 12 Oct, 2018 7:06 pm

Sound advice from Tudor Rose.

Lovely print BTW :D
"You know, there's a right and wrong way to do everything!"
Oliver Hardy.

User avatar
Rainbow
Posts: 611
Joined: Tue 23 Jun, 2015 8:51 am
Location: England
Organisation: Picture Sales & Framing
Interests: Picture framing

Re: Trimming down a print

Post by Rainbow » Fri 12 Oct, 2018 7:08 pm

I've got some original botanical paintings like the one in the OP to frame, although unlike the OP's, they're not of huge value. This might be a silly question, but as this thread is all about prints, are originals treated in the same way as a print? The customer has left it to me to decide on the space/margins, and I've been pondering over it so this thread is very interesting!
It's life, Jim, but not as we know it....

vintage frames
Posts: 748
Joined: Tue 12 Jun, 2012 6:05 pm
Location: West Wales
Organisation: gilded frames
Interests: Making picture frames
Contact:

Re: Trimming down a print

Post by vintage frames » Fri 12 Oct, 2018 7:10 pm

Have a look for the "plate mark" around the outside of the print. That's the embossed impression on the paper that the printing press makes when printing. It's usual to always show this mark and allow about say - 7mm beyond for the mount. Then follow all the excellent advice from Tudor Rose.

DaveJ
Posts: 199
Joined: Fri 27 Feb, 2015 7:02 pm
Location: Chesham, Bucks.
Organisation: FrameCraft
Interests: Picture Framing.

Re: Trimming down a print

Post by DaveJ » Fri 12 Oct, 2018 7:12 pm

It is DM but very white and was like a coiled spring, sweaty palm job when flattening! First time I've ever sweated through gloves!!

DaveJ
Posts: 199
Joined: Fri 27 Feb, 2015 7:02 pm
Location: Chesham, Bucks.
Organisation: FrameCraft
Interests: Picture Framing.

Re: Trimming down a print

Post by DaveJ » Fri 12 Oct, 2018 7:13 pm

Cheers VF dont think it has one!

DaveJ
Posts: 199
Joined: Fri 27 Feb, 2015 7:02 pm
Location: Chesham, Bucks.
Organisation: FrameCraft
Interests: Picture Framing.

Re: Trimming down a print

Post by DaveJ » Fri 12 Oct, 2018 7:15 pm

Rainbow, I treat all my jobs the same all conservation materials as standard, acid free barrier boards etc unless its very valuable then go for top 100 percent conservation business, mind you I dont get many of them, wrong part of town! :lol:

vintage frames
Posts: 748
Joined: Tue 12 Jun, 2012 6:05 pm
Location: West Wales
Organisation: gilded frames
Interests: Making picture frames
Contact:

Re: Trimming down a print

Post by vintage frames » Fri 12 Oct, 2018 7:18 pm

Ah! ...
It may not be quite a valuable as your customer suggests.

DaveJ
Posts: 199
Joined: Fri 27 Feb, 2015 7:02 pm
Location: Chesham, Bucks.
Organisation: FrameCraft
Interests: Picture Framing.

Re: Trimming down a print

Post by DaveJ » Fri 12 Oct, 2018 7:20 pm

I looked on line £250. Not a fortune but more than my usual.

vintage frames
Posts: 748
Joined: Tue 12 Jun, 2012 6:05 pm
Location: West Wales
Organisation: gilded frames
Interests: Making picture frames
Contact:

Re: Trimming down a print

Post by vintage frames » Fri 12 Oct, 2018 7:28 pm

Yes but is it an original numbered and signed print or just a mass produced copy? The lack of a plate mark would have me worried.

DaveJ
Posts: 199
Joined: Fri 27 Feb, 2015 7:02 pm
Location: Chesham, Bucks.
Organisation: FrameCraft
Interests: Picture Framing.

Re: Trimming down a print

Post by DaveJ » Fri 12 Oct, 2018 7:34 pm

It may have one but I'll have a proper look tomorrow. I was more concerned with not breaking it! I went to measure for the mount and thought no way I need to consult with my Brothers on Framers Forum before I tackle this one!!

User avatar
Tudor Rose
Posts: 827
Joined: Wed 10 Mar, 2010 4:07 pm
Location: Dawlish, South Devon
Organisation: The Framing Lot
Interests: Tudor history, swimming, walking and needlework.
Contact:

Re: Trimming down a print

Post by Tudor Rose » Fri 12 Oct, 2018 10:19 pm

Rainbow wrote:I've got some original botanical paintings like the one in the OP to frame, although unlike the OP's, they're not of huge value. This might be a silly question, but as this thread is all about prints, are originals treated in the same way as a print? The customer has left it to me to decide on the space/margins, and I've been pondering over it so this thread is very interesting!
The advice is the same really for originals - they shouldn't be trimmed. In reality though there are, in my personal opinion, two ways to look at this - and I appreciate others may have differing opinions.

Example A: If a customer brings in an original they have bought then I would certainly treat it in exactly the same way - shouldn't be trimmed, folded or stuck down - and if the customer insists then you have the choice to refuse to do it or ask them to sign a disclaimer, once you've explained all the reasons why it isn't a good idea.

Example B: If a customer brings in an original THAT THEY HAVE DONE THEMSELVES and they want it cut or stuck down - well that is a whole different thing. That becomes the way the artist is presenting the work - either for themselves or for onward sale - and so is part of the process of creating the artwork. We've had artists cut work up on the design table because they've decided they don't like part of the image and want to focus in on a different area. Or artists who have all their work stuck down before framing. It is just how they choose to present it for sale.

For the example you've given it isn't clear if the artist who created the original is your customer - whether they are or not, have a conversation with them so both of you are clear about what option to take and that way there can be no repercussions. After all, if the original is trimmed down and the customer decides they don't like it afterwards, you can't just stick the edges back on again!
Jo Palmer GCF(APF) Adv (Textile & Conservation)

Proud to be serving as current Chair & Master of
The Fine Art Trade Guild http://www.fineart.co.uk
Member of the Guild and the PPFA

User avatar
prospero
Posts: 10790
Joined: Tue 05 Jun, 2007 4:16 pm
Location: Lincolnshire

Re: Trimming down a print

Post by prospero » Fri 12 Oct, 2018 10:23 pm

Never trim anything. If the customer insists, hand them a pair of scissors and look away. :lol:

I chap tried to sell me some limited edition aircraft prints once. Total value on sec market about £16k. They had been
trimmed and drymounted. Total sec market value = zero. :cry:

I rest my case. :P
Watch Out. There's A Humphrey About

User avatar
David McCormack
Posts: 1407
Joined: Tue 02 Aug, 2011 10:14 am
Location: South Lakes
Organisation: Framing
Interests: Cycling, walking, darkroom photography and laughing a lot!
Location: Cumbria

Re: Trimming down a print

Post by David McCormack » Fri 12 Oct, 2018 11:03 pm

A quick google search and I can see Fiona Strickland is a watercolour artist so the print will be a reproduction and won’t have a plate mark which you get from an original hand pulled print.

Interestingly, here’s a photo of the original watercolour from an RHS exhibition showing how it has been framed and the amount of white paper showing.

DM (Forum Brother) 8)
Fiona Strickland.jpg
Fiona Strickland.jpg (49.68 KiB) Viewed 2459 times
"You know, there's a right and wrong way to do everything!"
Oliver Hardy.

Buster
Posts: 33
Joined: Sun 30 Jul, 2017 12:58 pm
Location: Dorset
Organisation: DIY
Interests: Cycling, golf, art

Re: Trimming down a print

Post by Buster » Sat 13 Oct, 2018 6:19 am

Really interesting discussion and totally agree, but the looks I’ve got when I say we don’t trim!!, but just to clarify, when you are saying don’t stick down, do you mean mounting or not even archival tee hinging? Sweaty palms here too :sweating:

User avatar
Tudor Rose
Posts: 827
Joined: Wed 10 Mar, 2010 4:07 pm
Location: Dawlish, South Devon
Organisation: The Framing Lot
Interests: Tudor history, swimming, walking and needlework.
Contact:

Re: Trimming down a print

Post by Tudor Rose » Sat 13 Oct, 2018 7:34 am

Sticking down = applying/using an adhesive of any kind over the surface of the back of the artwork to bond it to a substrate.

Correct hinging techniques etc such as archival tee hinging are fine.
Jo Palmer GCF(APF) Adv (Textile & Conservation)

Proud to be serving as current Chair & Master of
The Fine Art Trade Guild http://www.fineart.co.uk
Member of the Guild and the PPFA

User avatar
Rainbow
Posts: 611
Joined: Tue 23 Jun, 2015 8:51 am
Location: England
Organisation: Picture Sales & Framing
Interests: Picture framing

Re: Trimming down a print

Post by Rainbow » Sat 13 Oct, 2018 8:10 am

@ Tudor Rose, thanks for that insight. Interesting point about the difference between artist's own work and otherwise. In these current jobs, it's not the artist's own work. If I give enough space around the painting, I wouldn't need to trim but I still haven't quite decided how much space looks best. The customer is a lovely elderly lady that I've framed quite a number of paintings for, but she gets a bit stressed about making decisions so she tells me to do what I think best and she doesn't realise what a responsibility that is!

Really interesting thread, thanks for posting it DaveJ and for all the responses :)
It's life, Jim, but not as we know it....

User avatar
pramsay13
Posts: 1156
Joined: Tue 27 Sep, 2011 11:46 am
Location: Lanarkshire
Organisation: Picture Framer (ML)
Interests: picture framing (no, really!) sport, music
Location: Stonehouse, Lanarkshire
Contact:

Re: Trimming down a print

Post by pramsay13 » Sat 13 Oct, 2018 8:32 am

Sometimes if there's a lot of space around an image like this I have the discussion with the customer about not having a mount but a spacer instead to lift the glass from the artwork.
Usually, if there is no mount you can have a much chunkier / fancier frame.
For me the skinny frame in the original doesn't do the fantastic image any favours.

Post Reply