Hello from East Lothian
- Orde02
- Posts: 147
- Joined: Wed 04 Sep, 2019 9:31 pm
- Location: East Lothian
- Organisation: Northwood Framing
- Interests: Painting, flying, cycling
Hello from East Lothian
Hello all.
I've been stalking this board for a few months and have finally joined in.
I'm an oil painter from just outside Edinburgh and I'd love to be able to frame my own paintings. I work on a fairly small scale, 8x10 inches on average so the frames I use are quite small.
What I'd really like to learn is how to hand finish frames, classic black with silver gilding (or similar) on the lip. I like the slightly distressed look where you can see a red undercolour showing through the top layer. I've trawled through the internet hoping to find out how to create this finish and have found a few bits of information here and there. As I understand, the red colour is bole but what do you use as the top layer, black bole? Acrylic paint? Are years of experience needed for this technique or could a beginner create something similar with a bit of practice? Are there modern alternatives to using rabbit skin glue?
All any help or advice would be most appreciated.
Regards
Matt
I've been stalking this board for a few months and have finally joined in.
I'm an oil painter from just outside Edinburgh and I'd love to be able to frame my own paintings. I work on a fairly small scale, 8x10 inches on average so the frames I use are quite small.
What I'd really like to learn is how to hand finish frames, classic black with silver gilding (or similar) on the lip. I like the slightly distressed look where you can see a red undercolour showing through the top layer. I've trawled through the internet hoping to find out how to create this finish and have found a few bits of information here and there. As I understand, the red colour is bole but what do you use as the top layer, black bole? Acrylic paint? Are years of experience needed for this technique or could a beginner create something similar with a bit of practice? Are there modern alternatives to using rabbit skin glue?
All any help or advice would be most appreciated.
Regards
Matt
-
- Posts: 11008
- Joined: Sat 25 Mar, 2006 8:40 pm
- Location: Devon, U.K.
- Organisation: The Dartmoor Gallery
- Interests: Lost causes, saving and restoring old things, learning something every day
- Location: Glorious Devon
Re: Hello from East Lothian
Hello Matt and welcome to the forum,
I am assuming, from what you have said so far that I are probably thinking of a framing set up, that would be less than the set up required to be a fully professional framer. Obviously there are trade off's with a lower budget set up, but at least you get to choose what those trade off's willbe. I got started with a Nobex Proman 110 manual mitre saw, a Lion simple underpinner and a secondhand mountcutter. It did not cost too much money and the results were of a good standard.
As you are probably already aware, I'm one of a steadily growing band on this forum who is strongly involved in hand finishing. I got into hand finishing in a small way originally and then developed beyond that point over a period of time. We don't all do things the same way and there's no reason why we should all be doing everything exactly the same as everyone else. In time, you will develop what works for you, we all do and probably are not particularly aware that is happening at the time, by I think it's just something that happens along the way.
We will all look forward to contact with you on the forum,
All the best,
Mark
I am assuming, from what you have said so far that I are probably thinking of a framing set up, that would be less than the set up required to be a fully professional framer. Obviously there are trade off's with a lower budget set up, but at least you get to choose what those trade off's willbe. I got started with a Nobex Proman 110 manual mitre saw, a Lion simple underpinner and a secondhand mountcutter. It did not cost too much money and the results were of a good standard.
As you are probably already aware, I'm one of a steadily growing band on this forum who is strongly involved in hand finishing. I got into hand finishing in a small way originally and then developed beyond that point over a period of time. We don't all do things the same way and there's no reason why we should all be doing everything exactly the same as everyone else. In time, you will develop what works for you, we all do and probably are not particularly aware that is happening at the time, by I think it's just something that happens along the way.
We will all look forward to contact with you on the forum,
All the best,
Mark
Mark Lacey
“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer
“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer
-
- Posts: 798
- Joined: Mon 04 Apr, 2016 7:13 am
- Location: The Wash
- Organisation: Annie Lou Fine Framing
- Interests: Caring for my wife, Picture Framing and Natural History
Re: Hello from East Lothian
Hello Matt welcome to the FF.
There is a wealth of information on this fantastic forum about hand finishing. You can always do what I did and read every post since day one. Starting back to front puts it in chronological order. It took me about year on and off
It was not until recently John explained how I use the "Book mark" feature so I now make good use of that.
To answer your two questions, there are other ways of creating the red undercoat and different mediums for the black topcoat and you can create something similar, with some practice, much sooner.
I get the impression you know exactly the finish you want to achieve.
All the best.
Peter.
There is a wealth of information on this fantastic forum about hand finishing. You can always do what I did and read every post since day one. Starting back to front puts it in chronological order. It took me about year on and off
It was not until recently John explained how I use the "Book mark" feature so I now make good use of that.
To answer your two questions, there are other ways of creating the red undercoat and different mediums for the black topcoat and you can create something similar, with some practice, much sooner.
I get the impression you know exactly the finish you want to achieve.
All the best.
Peter.
- Rainbow
- Posts: 894
- Joined: Tue 23 Jun, 2015 8:51 am
- Location: See my name, I'm somewhere over it
- Organisation: Picture sales and framing
- Interests: varied
Re: Hello from East Lothian
Nice to see you on the forum, Matt. Can't offer any advice on hand finishing but all the best with it.
Re: Hello from East Lothian
Welcome Matt.
Pleased to read you are interested in hand-finishing. For artists framing their own work it is a no-brainer.
You can make frames that nobody else has - a signature frame in fact. One other advantage is that if you are taking
work around exhibitions and such you have no fear of repairing dings and scrapes.
Don't be too focused on the 'traditional' methods - gesso/bole/leaf and wotnot.
There are really only two rules: The frame should look good and compliment the art and the finish should stick well and nor drop off.
Pleased to read you are interested in hand-finishing. For artists framing their own work it is a no-brainer.
You can make frames that nobody else has - a signature frame in fact. One other advantage is that if you are taking
work around exhibitions and such you have no fear of repairing dings and scrapes.
Don't be too focused on the 'traditional' methods - gesso/bole/leaf and wotnot.
There are really only two rules: The frame should look good and compliment the art and the finish should stick well and nor drop off.
Watch Out. There's A Humphrey About
-
- Posts: 11008
- Joined: Sat 25 Mar, 2006 8:40 pm
- Location: Devon, U.K.
- Organisation: The Dartmoor Gallery
- Interests: Lost causes, saving and restoring old things, learning something every day
- Location: Glorious Devon
Re: Hello from East Lothian
I don't think Prosperro could have put that better. That's it in a nutshell.Prosperro said, There are really only two rules: The frame should look good and compliment the art and the finish should stick well and nor drop off.
It makes it so much easier if you keep things simpler in you own thinking and if you do so, you will be surprised how quickly you will makeprogress in the skills of hand finishing. If you start off with the idea in your own mind that things are going to be complication, then that's how you will find them, but if you decide that it going to be as simple as Properro is saying, it will be simple and easy. Don't try to be too fast at first, the speed will come in time, almost without you noticing.
Mark Lacey
“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer
“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer
-
- Posts: 1375
- Joined: Tue 12 Jun, 2012 6:05 pm
- Location: West Wales
- Organisation: https://www.dermotmcardle.co.uk/
- Interests: Making picture frames
- Contact:
Re: Hello from East Lothian
Hi Matt and of course, welome.
In my answer to your question on handfinishing, I can only attach labels to the effects you enquired about. Once you know what the effect is called then you can read up further on the methods. The Black finish is usually referred to as an ebonised effect. This is achieved by thin layers of black shellac over a usually red coloured base and then finished with a final coat of clear shellac.
The silver on the lip is created by Water-gilding silver leaf over a gesso/bole surface and then abraded back to show hints of the red bole beneath.
All these effects are straight foward and known as traditional finishes. Is there a modern alternative? Not really and I would further add that the degree of skill required to simulate these finishes with "modern alternatives" far exceeds that required to simply do it the traditonal way.
Don't be frightened off by it as it's a bit like crossing a busy road. You can dither and wander for ages up the road to find a safe crossing point, or you could simply stay alert and stride directly across.
In my answer to your question on handfinishing, I can only attach labels to the effects you enquired about. Once you know what the effect is called then you can read up further on the methods. The Black finish is usually referred to as an ebonised effect. This is achieved by thin layers of black shellac over a usually red coloured base and then finished with a final coat of clear shellac.
The silver on the lip is created by Water-gilding silver leaf over a gesso/bole surface and then abraded back to show hints of the red bole beneath.
All these effects are straight foward and known as traditional finishes. Is there a modern alternative? Not really and I would further add that the degree of skill required to simulate these finishes with "modern alternatives" far exceeds that required to simply do it the traditonal way.
Don't be frightened off by it as it's a bit like crossing a busy road. You can dither and wander for ages up the road to find a safe crossing point, or you could simply stay alert and stride directly across.
Affordable Gilding Course for Professional Framers-https://www.dermotmcardle.co.uk/
https://www.instagram.com/dermotmcardle/
https://www.instagram.com/dermotmcardle/
- Orde02
- Posts: 147
- Joined: Wed 04 Sep, 2019 9:31 pm
- Location: East Lothian
- Organisation: Northwood Framing
- Interests: Painting, flying, cycling
Re: Hello from East Lothian
Thanks for all the messages everybody, there's some really helpful advice there. I've started by getting a couple of bare wood frames made for me at a local framer, going to experiment with those and see how I get on.
I'll post here with an update and more then likely a cry for help!
Cheers
Matt
I'll post here with an update and more then likely a cry for help!
Cheers
Matt
-
- Posts: 522
- Joined: Tue 01 Jan, 2019 8:42 pm
- Location: Surrey
- Organisation: Satriale's Pork Store
- Interests: .
Re: Hello from East Lothian
Welcome Matt.
You'll be fine, I'm sure. Seems to me painters usually make very competent framers - and make tasteful choices, too.
If you're only doing it for yourself, you can set yourself up pretty reasonably. Check out Nobex mitre saws (streets ahead of what the DIY sheds sell), and I'd say get a Veritas clamp (about £35). The are great for 'dry fitting' - so you can make sure you're happy with cuts before you glue & pin.
If you like what you're doing / get asked to do more, you can get into the whole Morso etc. thing.
Good luck, mate....see you around the boards.
Paul
You'll be fine, I'm sure. Seems to me painters usually make very competent framers - and make tasteful choices, too.
If you're only doing it for yourself, you can set yourself up pretty reasonably. Check out Nobex mitre saws (streets ahead of what the DIY sheds sell), and I'd say get a Veritas clamp (about £35). The are great for 'dry fitting' - so you can make sure you're happy with cuts before you glue & pin.
If you like what you're doing / get asked to do more, you can get into the whole Morso etc. thing.
Good luck, mate....see you around the boards.
Paul
-
- Posts: 11008
- Joined: Sat 25 Mar, 2006 8:40 pm
- Location: Devon, U.K.
- Organisation: The Dartmoor Gallery
- Interests: Lost causes, saving and restoring old things, learning something every day
- Location: Glorious Devon
Re: Hello from East Lothian
I don't know if this possibility is one that you would consider as practical for your own situation, this is what I am thinking and it's down to you to edcide if it makes enough sense to do it.
At present, (if I understand it right) you are getting your frames made for you by someone else. If it is practical for you to make those frames yourself, this made be a way the you can possibly save so money, but you need some equipment to do this and enough time available. Basic level equipment will not result in the level of efficiency and productivity that a full time professional framer needs, but it may, or may not be satisfactory according to your needs and the volume of frames you wish to produce.
This is not necessarily something that you make work from day one, but you can develop into it within your own timescale, or you can just stick to doing the hand finishing only. This is something to think about and define your own objectives and when you are ready to ask the forum to help you put it all together. There's always a learning curve, but there's a lot of brains to pick on this forum along the way, as you need helping.
At present, (if I understand it right) you are getting your frames made for you by someone else. If it is practical for you to make those frames yourself, this made be a way the you can possibly save so money, but you need some equipment to do this and enough time available. Basic level equipment will not result in the level of efficiency and productivity that a full time professional framer needs, but it may, or may not be satisfactory according to your needs and the volume of frames you wish to produce.
This is not necessarily something that you make work from day one, but you can develop into it within your own timescale, or you can just stick to doing the hand finishing only. This is something to think about and define your own objectives and when you are ready to ask the forum to help you put it all together. There's always a learning curve, but there's a lot of brains to pick on this forum along the way, as you need helping.
Mark Lacey
“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer
“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer
Re: Hello from East Lothian
Matt.
It would be useful to see some of your work, the better to tell what sort of equipment would be beneficial to you.
Any chance of some pics?
** I started of like yourself framing my own work. Nowadays I frame other artists work and don't have time to paint.
It would be useful to see some of your work, the better to tell what sort of equipment would be beneficial to you.
Any chance of some pics?
** I started of like yourself framing my own work. Nowadays I frame other artists work and don't have time to paint.
Watch Out. There's A Humphrey About
- Orde02
- Posts: 147
- Joined: Wed 04 Sep, 2019 9:31 pm
- Location: East Lothian
- Organisation: Northwood Framing
- Interests: Painting, flying, cycling
Re: Hello from East Lothian
Hello all. As requested, this is the sort of work I do and these are sort of frames and finish I like.
I'm currently a part time painter, a part time tattooist and a part time swing jazz musician. As I'm now getting a little long in the tooth to be a cool tattooist (if I ever was one.. ) I'm now looking at what else I can do other than jabbing people with inky needles. I've done a bit of work with framing years ago and I really do love to see my paintings in beautiful frames particularly hand finished ones so framing seem to be a natural progression.
I'd like to start off slowly and if it becomes something I could do instead of tattooing, then that's something I could consider later on.
Regards
Matt
I'm currently a part time painter, a part time tattooist and a part time swing jazz musician. As I'm now getting a little long in the tooth to be a cool tattooist (if I ever was one.. ) I'm now looking at what else I can do other than jabbing people with inky needles. I've done a bit of work with framing years ago and I really do love to see my paintings in beautiful frames particularly hand finished ones so framing seem to be a natural progression.
I'd like to start off slowly and if it becomes something I could do instead of tattooing, then that's something I could consider later on.
Regards
Matt
- Orde02
- Posts: 147
- Joined: Wed 04 Sep, 2019 9:31 pm
- Location: East Lothian
- Organisation: Northwood Framing
- Interests: Painting, flying, cycling
Re: Hello from East Lothian
Just finished this little 5x9 inch painting, hoping to put it in my first hand finished frame!
Matt
Matt
-
- Posts: 11008
- Joined: Sat 25 Mar, 2006 8:40 pm
- Location: Devon, U.K.
- Organisation: The Dartmoor Gallery
- Interests: Lost causes, saving and restoring old things, learning something every day
- Location: Glorious Devon
Re: Hello from East Lothian
WOW and you come to ask us for tips on hand finishing. I think some of us are probably quite inspired just looking at the pictures! I also have to say how much I love your pictures as well, just so much style and expression. What is it that you are looking to get from the rest of us?
Amazing!
BTW, your framer is an artist too!
Amazing!
BTW, your framer is an artist too!
Mark Lacey
“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer
“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer
- Orde02
- Posts: 147
- Joined: Wed 04 Sep, 2019 9:31 pm
- Location: East Lothian
- Organisation: Northwood Framing
- Interests: Painting, flying, cycling
Re: Hello from East Lothian
Thanks! But I only painted the still lifes, I didn’t make the frames! But they’re the sort of thing I WANT to make.
Matt
Matt
-
- Posts: 11008
- Joined: Sat 25 Mar, 2006 8:40 pm
- Location: Devon, U.K.
- Organisation: The Dartmoor Gallery
- Interests: Lost causes, saving and restoring old things, learning something every day
- Location: Glorious Devon
Re: Hello from East Lothian
Now you're really talking, those frames are something else! Your framer has much to be proud about. This is why I love stacking mouldings! There are times when I get the chance to do very similar frames myself. This is the stuff that really making me tick.
Mark Lacey
“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer
“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer
-
- Posts: 11008
- Joined: Sat 25 Mar, 2006 8:40 pm
- Location: Devon, U.K.
- Organisation: The Dartmoor Gallery
- Interests: Lost causes, saving and restoring old things, learning something every day
- Location: Glorious Devon
Re: Hello from East Lothian
BTW, Most of those mouldings that have been stacked together are from Rose & Hollis and quite easy to put together, if you've got the right kit and have a good feel for what you are doing.
Mark Lacey
“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer
“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer
- Orde02
- Posts: 147
- Joined: Wed 04 Sep, 2019 9:31 pm
- Location: East Lothian
- Organisation: Northwood Framing
- Interests: Painting, flying, cycling
Re: Hello from East Lothian
Learning how to make a tabernacle frame is very high on my framing want list! One thing at a time though...
Re: Hello from East Lothian
Great Stuff Matt.
Framed a lot of work like that for a local gallery, in fact I would swear I've framed some of yours. Do you sell though an agent?
Framed a lot of work like that for a local gallery, in fact I would swear I've framed some of yours. Do you sell though an agent?
Watch Out. There's A Humphrey About
-
- Posts: 11008
- Joined: Sat 25 Mar, 2006 8:40 pm
- Location: Devon, U.K.
- Organisation: The Dartmoor Gallery
- Interests: Lost causes, saving and restoring old things, learning something every day
- Location: Glorious Devon
Re: Hello from East Lothian
Hi Matt,
I'm not completely clear what you are doing so far. Are you getting these frames constructed and hand finishing them yourself, or is your framers doing the hand finishing for you? If we are assuming that you are needing to learn how to make the stacked moulding frames yourself and also learn to hand finish them as well, with no previous experience, that's quite a demanding process.
Producing really nice quality stacked moulding frames is quite a skillful thing and I'm not clear how you will be planning to do this. This is pretty hands on stuff and teaching you how to do this without the hands on bit, might not be very sucessful. So I don't know how we are to take this forward by just talking about on the forum. Is there any hands on training available within a sensible distance from where you are.
I'm not completely clear what you are doing so far. Are you getting these frames constructed and hand finishing them yourself, or is your framers doing the hand finishing for you? If we are assuming that you are needing to learn how to make the stacked moulding frames yourself and also learn to hand finish them as well, with no previous experience, that's quite a demanding process.
Producing really nice quality stacked moulding frames is quite a skillful thing and I'm not clear how you will be planning to do this. This is pretty hands on stuff and teaching you how to do this without the hands on bit, might not be very sucessful. So I don't know how we are to take this forward by just talking about on the forum. Is there any hands on training available within a sensible distance from where you are.
Mark Lacey
“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer
“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer