Oak supplier advice

[nolonstacey]

I know I'm late to the party on this discussion but I also have this problem. Drives me nuts. I've got quite a bit of 'oak' stock that looks just like the ash version of the same moulding, in tone at least.

When I've brought it up, different suppliers blame either the fact no one was planting trees during Covid (?!) so all the oak now is younger, sounds like BS to me, or Brexit resulting in changes to supply chains. Who knows.

I use Rose and Hollis and Lion regularly for most things, and rate them both highly, but still find I'm afraid that their oak is too pale and pink for me. I don't know where Wessex get their oak from but it's usually much better. Knotty and occasionally split, but a much better colour. Pick your poison. Pw87 is particularly nice.

We use Liberon clear beeswax on oak which warms it up a bit. If anyone can recommend a stain for oak that looks natural I'm all ears.

I too keep trying different stains but haven’t landed on anything good yet.
I’ve actually started offering people veneers alongside the oak and, when they compare it to the oak chevron, they often go for the veneer. I really like Centrado’s foil CR0989OF. It has a lovely colour and texture.

[Justintime]

Imo oak is oak is oak. I suggest making a new sample from what is supplied and sell it without any comment about how it was. I just had the same with a new set of Crescent Rag board chevrons. All the tones are different to the original set I have been using. The customers have no idea..
An expert in cutting timber/hand finishing like vintage frames will probably be able to explain the cutting of an oak tree and how different shades and tones of oak will represent different sections of the timber and how they are cut.
As far as stains go, I think you'll be hard pushed to stain oak to look natural, but there are plenty of choices to stain it down to look older and more of a premium offering. Van Dyck crystals with a pinch of burnt umber etc will give some really nice shades. Maybe make some samples up of some stained oaks and upsell these, increasing your hand finishing skills and profits.

[Gesso&Bole]

I've had oak delivered from Rose & Hollis and Centrado recently, and it has all been fine. Fine, that is for natural wood. Every tree is different, and the grain pattern and the tone varies from length to length sometimes by a lot, normally it is marginal.

I show the customer a range of samples, so they can pick the tone they want. I then use the chevron as a reference to get the finished frame to that tone, but not necessarily using the same method.

My process is
1) select the best length(s) I have for the job
2) make the frame
3) sand with 180 grit
4) adjust colour if necessary*
5) sand 320 grit
6) shellac (1 coat for matt, 2 or 3 for gloss)
7) Liberon wax (1st coat rub off again almost immediately, 2nd coat leave overnight then buff)

*Colour adjustment either by a paint colour wash, or coloured waxes, or a combination of the 2.

[JFeig]

Every tree is different, and the grain pattern and the tone varies from length to length.

There are also slight variations from specific species and the location due to climate, year to year variances, and mineral content of the ground minerals where it was grown. There are also differences caused by "old growth forests" vs "farmed" woods. If you want a consistent product, you have to coat it with an opaque paint vs a stain.

[vintage frames]

This is a question I've often wondered about.
Is the oak that framers buy from R&H et al, quarter-sawn faced oak?
That is where you see the medullary rays streaking across the grain, sometimes called fiqured oak.
This oak will have the finest grain pattern and be of cabinet quality.
All the oak that grows has this inherent quality but the sawmill has to spend much longer dividing the logs into quarter sawn boards, hence the premium price attached to quarter-sawn oak.

I make my own mouldings (eye-roll, thank you) and buy in quarter sawn boards to mill out the profiles from, so I get to have a fine-grained timber effect on the moulding face.
I'm just curious whether the bought in woods are cut the same.

If the colour of the oak is giving you some grief, then do as Gesso&Bole says, ie sand the surface with 180grit then 320grit first.
Dust out the grain with a stiff brush and then wipe over the surface with some diluted shellac.
Use a simple cotton pad.
This will highlight the beauty of the oak and all you have to do then is wipe over with some clear or 'light-oak' coloured wax.

[JFeig]

I do not thing that a moulding milling company would go the the extra expense of quarter sawn lumber.

[vintage frames]

You could be right.
The sawmill will slice through the logs in the most cost-effective fashion but in doing so will also expose some boards within the figured/ quarter-sawn plain.
Perhaps a good moulding company will select these boards from the pile and use them to produce their mouldings.
Or not!

[nolonstacey]

My process is
1) select the best length(s) I have for the job
2) make the frame
3) sand with 180 grit
4) adjust colour if necessary*
5) sand 320 grit
6) shellac (1 coat for matt, 2 or 3 for gloss)
7) Liberon wax (1st coat rub off again almost immediately, 2nd coat leave overnight then buff)

*Colour adjustment either by a paint colour wash, or coloured waxes, or a combination of the 2.

Interesting that you add shellac and then wax. I've never done much with staining wood, so that is one area I'm less knowledgeable on. I must admit, it's not an area that I want to get into too much. My studio is very small so I like to limit how much stuff I have to leave to dry! I offer a lot of finished mouldings, but would like to offer a solid oak that is at least close to what people perceive to be oak.

I have lengths and lengths that look like the attached. Not only are they VERY pink, but they often have lines or marks that run down so much of the length that there's no way to cut around it.

[vintage frames]

Oh dear. That's some pretty dodgey oak. I've never seen it that colour and the wood grain is pretty ropey too.

If you're stuck with it then the best thing is to stain it dark and call it antique oak.
Buy a bottle of this stuff -

https://bolgers.co.uk/collections/wood ... -wood-dye

and antique it up with some of this stuff =
https://bolgers.co.uk/collections/wood- ... crystals

This should be easy enough.
Spoon some of the Walnut crystals into a cup of hot water, stirring as you go. Keep going until you have a very dark brown stain.

Pour some of the oak stain into an empty yogurt pot and test it on a scrap piece of the oak (which you will have sanded as above)
If it's too strong then you can dilute it with some clean water.
Now add in some of the Walnut stain untill you have a pleasant antique tone on the wood.
You can do repeat coats if you want to darken it further.

When all is dry, rub on the shellac as advised and apply the wax.