Some Examples - good, bad or ugly? (1)

[RobM]

Hi Everyone,

This section of the forum seems like a really useful idea for newcomers, so Id love to get a little feedback on these examples.Interested to hear what people think in particular of the design choices and any other little details worthy of note. What would you have done differently, or to better these? Any comments greatly appreciated - don't hold back!

A few notes...

pigman canvas - a pretty basic, understated frame so room for more. However, would it better suit a light frame, given the colours?

dog tax - I can't help feeling more could have been done with the mats. More maybe, or a v groove? Needs to be wider? Would a more classical frame have done the picture more justice?

kappa box - again, now feeling more could have been done with the mats...but not quite sure what.

And a few general questions when doing these..

1. Do you gently round off the corners with a small mallet? I've received this as advice but got a feeling not everyone does it. It seems like one of a few of the micro-tasks we do the tidy up the whole thing and helps when there's a slight diversion on a corner.

2. When working with a veteran framer on the canvas, he attached the floating frame to the canvas by drilling through the frame and into the canvas stretcher. Is this normal practice for you? Seemed a possible risk to me, at least for working with a conservation piece. Are there preferable methods?

Thanks everyone!!

[pramsay13]

I don't have an issue with any of the frame designs.
I would possibly have a different mount colour on the dog one to give more of a contrast, or add a bit of colour with a double mount, but I definitely wouldn't add a vgroove as it's already quite busy.
For the Kappa one I would have possibly made the mount wider, or got rid of it completely and then changed the colour of the backing mount, or just had a colour on the spacers.

Are these your own frames or are customers allowing you free reign?

1. I've never rounded off the corners and not sure why you would unless hand finishing and going for a particular look.
2. I screw through the back of the tray frame and into the canvas stretcher using a screw that is definitely the right depth so no risk of going right through. I have drilled a few times when I'm worried about the wood splitting but I would then tape the bit so I definitely don't go too far.

[Justintime]

1. Frame colour looks fine, it works with the darker tones of the piece helping to highlight the colours. Mitres don't look good from here. Are they flush on the corners? Looks like it needed a band clamp to pull them together while the glue dried. I'd have a smaller shadow gap.
2.I'd have used a, warmer mount, preferably a rag mount. I'd have done a double rag mount with V groove, wider too and bottom weighted. Moulding is perfect for the piece.
3.im not a fan of window mounts in a box frame. I prefer matching spacers. If it's hard to find a matching mount or one that is in the tonal range it's best not to try Imo. The moulding is OK, but no wow factor. The piece is not centred in the frame.

[Justintime]

Q's.
1 I don't understand the mallet corners thing. If it's hand finished then fill and sand. If it's prefinished fill or work on improving your joints.
2.Never drill through frame and stretcher. Drill through frame with a counter sinking drill bit, then screw into stretcher frame.

[RobM]

Peter and Justin - these are incredibly useful comments, thank you.

I'll respond in more detail a little later, but this is great. Appreciate it.

[RobM]

Ah, so you would hold off on something like a v groove (or multiple mats) if the imagery is quite busy? That does make sense when I now think of pictures I've seen with grooves on. In terms of the mount, possibly just a grey, or any other stronger "off" white?

For the box, I'm embarrassed to admit I haven't worked at all with spacers - this needs correcting. Again, this makes sense as, if you have the depth on a project, those elements can be better exploited.

And I'm in agreement about hand-screwing instead of drilling. I'd rather not go near a canvas with a drill!

Thanks, Peter.

I don't have an issue with any of the frame designs.
I would possibly have a different mount colour on the dog one to give more of a contrast, or add a bit of colour with a double mount, but I definitely wouldn't add a vgroove as it's already quite busy.
For the Kappa one I would have possibly made the mount wider, or got rid of it completely and then changed the colour of the backing mount, or just had a colour on the spacers.

Are these your own frames or are customers allowing you free reign?

1. I've never rounded off the corners and not sure why you would unless hand finishing and going for a particular look.
2. I screw through the back of the tray frame and into the canvas stretcher using a screw that is definitely the right depth so no risk of going right through. I have drilled a few times when I'm worried about the wood splitting but I would then tape the bit so I definitely don't go too far.

[RobM]

1. You're right - those corners look a bit gnarly. It's a good job none of these examples are for clients, and only just my own practice materials. A smaller shadow gap...I imagine this is a common mistake: folk going overboard with wide gaps that distract from the picture. Out of interest, how to do you set the gaps? Do you use fillets?
2. Rag mounts are something I was hoping to attempt in the near future. Do you make them from scratch using a normal mount and the fabric, or can they be purchased as one?
3. It sounds like spacers have really been the overlooked element of this work. Fair comments about both the mount and frame - this does look a little underwhelming.

Thanks, Justin.

1. Frame colour looks fine, it works with the darker tones of the piece helping to highlight the colours. Mitres don't look good from here. Are they flush on the corners? Looks like it needed a band clamp to pull them together while the glue dried. I'd have a smaller shadow gap.
2.I'd have used a, warmer mount, preferably a rag mount. I'd have done a double rag mount with V groove, wider too and bottom weighted. Moulding is perfect for the piece.
3.im not a fan of window mounts in a box frame. I prefer matching spacers. If it's hard to find a matching mount or one that is in the tonal range it's best not to try Imo. The moulding is OK, but no wow factor. The piece is not centred in the frame.

[RobM]

Just for 1, naive question maybe, but do you solely use wax to fill? Is there a technique to it? I ask as it something I imagine gets messy and could possibly ruin a corner if not taken with care. Is there a particular tool to use for it?

Q's.
1 I don't understand the mallet corners thing. If it's hand finished then fill and sand. If it's prefinished fill or work on improving your joints.
2.Never drill through frame and stretcher. Drill through frame with a counter sinking drill bit, then screw into stretcher frame.

[Gesso&Bole]

Hi Rob

Your framing is definitely moving in the right direction.

Canvas
I would aim for the 'air gap' to be approx 5mm yours looks a bit wider than that.
Mitres could be better - use a strap clamp
Choice of frame looks perfect.

Dog Tax
This looks like it is well executed - I think the moulding is a good choice.
Using a whiter mount than the image, tends to make the print look dirty. This is why there are dozens of different whites.
I think I would have gone for either a double mount with a 4mm darker colour showing underneath (although this can look a bit 'modern' for that type of image) or a single mount line around the aperture. Either way I would go darker on the mount to make the image look a bit cleaner.

Kappa Box
I agree with Justin on window mounts on shadow boxes. I would use the same mount board to make fillets for the side of the frame - much cleaner. I am generally happy for the bottom to be weighted slightly this is a bit extreme. (trick here is to attach the mask to an oversize piece of board, and then mark it and trim it to size)

Hitting the corners with a mallet? Never heard that one before, I would swerve that advice.

Overall, Rob, you should be really pleased with those. Well done

[Justintime]

@RobM I use some pieces of foamboard to set the canvas in the float frame. If I've cut the moulding for a 5mm shadow gap some 5mm foamboard pieces should hold it in place, if not squeeze some 1.4 mountboard pieces in too til it's tight. Fix with screws from below and remove foamboard.
"Rag mount" is 100% cotton mountboard as opposed to alpha cellulose paper mountboard. It's Museum or Level 1 board, more expensive and much more premium looking Imo, perfect for this sort of antique print.
For fillers I prefer the CJ Paste or Cc Paste from Lions I never got on with the Amaco waxes. Have a damp sheet of kitchen paper handy, squeeze a bit onto a gloves finger push into corner, when all four corners are done leave for five minutes and carefully clean up with the damp paper. Do it all again if required. That's for white black brown etc. If it's gold or silver etc using a bit of ronseal smooth finish wood filler, clean up and rub a tiny bit of Rub n Buff golf leaf etc over the filler.

[RobM]

Thanks, Jim. All these comments are greatly useful and are being noted.

I'm now seeing what you're saying about the mount on dog tax, and I'll aim to amend for others. I've got a similar print so may try that one with another mount for comparison.

Centering the items in boxes perfectly has been a little more tricky than I'd anticipated. Going forward, I'll use the method you've suggested.

Thanks for encouragement.

Hi Rob

Your framing is definitely moving in the right direction.

Canvas
I would aim for the 'air gap' to be approx 5mm yours looks a bit wider than that.
Mitres could be better - use a strap clamp
Choice of frame looks perfect.

Dog Tax
This looks like it is well executed - I think the moulding is a good choice.
Using a whiter mount than the image, tends to make the print look dirty. This is why there are dozens of different whites.
I think I would have gone for either a double mount with a 4mm darker colour showing underneath (although this can look a bit 'modern' for that type of image) or a single mount line around the aperture. Either way I would go darker on the mount to make the image look a bit cleaner.

Kappa Box
I agree with Justin on window mounts on shadow boxes. I would use the same mount board to make fillets for the side of the frame - much cleaner. I am generally happy for the bottom to be weighted slightly this is a bit extreme. (trick here is to attach the mask to an oversize piece of board, and then mark it and trim it to size)

Hitting the corners with a mallet? Never heard that one before, I would swerve that advice.

Overall, Rob, you should be really pleased with those. Well done

[RobM]

I'm logging all this information. A treasure trove of advice.

@RobM I use some pieces of foamboard to set the canvas in the float frame. If I've cut the moulding for a 5mm shadow gap some 5mm foamboard pieces should hold it in place, if not squeeze some 1.4 mountboard pieces in too til it's tight. Fix with screws from below and remove foamboard.
"Rag mount" is 100% cotton mountboard as opposed to alpha cellulose paper mountboard. It's Museum or Level 1 board, more expensive and much more premium looking Imo, perfect for this sort of antique print.
For fillers I prefer the CJ Paste or Cc Paste from Lions I never got on with the Amaco waxes. Have a damp sheet of kitchen paper handy, squeeze a bit onto a gloves finger push into corner, when all four corners are done leave for five minutes and carefully clean up with the damp paper. Do it all again if required. That's for white black brown etc. If it's gold or silver etc using a bit of ronseal smooth finish wood filler, clean up and rub a tiny bit of Rub n Buff golf leaf etc over the filler.