Picture Framer Insurance? (UK)

[SGGT24]

Hello all,
I'm interested in taking my business further and researching into Picture Framing insurance.
I'm currently framing my own stuff and a few friends’ artwork. So, if there were any complications, we are comfortable enough to deal with situations between ourselves.

It would be great to see/ hear of some personal suggestions & experience with the companies they’re with.
And any suggestions of what to ask for & 'dont do's as well. (I’m also based in the UK, London)

Many thanks, Stefan

[JKX]

Here’s a load of topics on the subject.


https://www.theframersforum.com/search. ... mit=Search


Welcome to the forum

[Justintime]

I think a fair few of us are with Hiscox. They're fine, in that they take direct debits regularly without issue! I tried Besso (?) which gives a discount to Guild members but I didn't like their T&C's.
I think it's called "Goods in Trust", which insures the work and anything that happens to it while it's in your care, that's important.

[vintage frames]

This 'Goods in Trust' thing..
Who decides what the mutually agreed, insurable value of an item is?
And how is this value verified?

[Justintime]

I believe that if a claim is required then the onus is on the owner of the artwork to submit proof of valuation. That is my understanding, otherwise they might only cover the value the paper/canvas and paints...
How is the value verified? A previous auction/sale price I assume.

[vintage frames]

Thanks for that.
An interesting mine-field.
I'm thinking of two scenarios.
One, an 'old master' painting or print. It would have a long historic provenance. The value is easily verified by as you say, its most recent sale receipt.

The other a modern painting with no provenance save for the gallery receipt from when it was sold.
Would the insurance co honor that value if the Artists work was later devalued and considered to be - a bit crap?

Or does the insurance cover the value at time of sale, regardless of later re-valuation?

[JKX]

Both an old master and a more modern high value piece bought years ago could both have increased in value and it’s in the interest of the owner to make sure that any place it is left is covered. They may also have it covered themselves off their own premises. Temporary cover can be arranged for items above your insurance limit.

The vast majority of things brought to the average high street framer would fall under the insurance excess! Say that was £500 and you lose/damage something worth £800, the insurer is unlikely to blink. If it gets serious there will be a loss adjuster.

We always used a broker, as well as setting it all up and keeping on top of the best deals, they deal with claims too.

Many things that are worthless on paper are priceless to their owners and there is no cover for that.

[Justintime]

I think it's worth considering too that many framers may have 20-40 or more pieces in their care at any one time.

[vintage frames]

Frightening!

[JKX]

I think it's worth considering too that many framers may have 20-40 or more pieces in their care at any one time.

If the whole lot were stolen/destroyed, I think you’d find your excess applies to individual items, not a combined total.

[bang]

Both an old master and a more modern high value piece bought years ago could both have increased in value and it’s in the interest of the owner to make sure that any place it is left is covered. They may also have it covered themselves off their own premises. Temporary cover can be arranged for items above your insurance limit.

The vast majority of things brought to the average high street framer would fall under the insurance excess! Say that was £500 and you lose/damage something worth £800, the insurer is unlikely to blink. If it gets serious there will be a loss adjuster.

We always used a broker, as well as setting it all up and keeping on top of the best deals, they deal with claims too.

Many things that are worthless on paper are priceless to their owners and there is no cover for that.

When I take artwork in from customers, I fill out a job sheet. After reading through this thread, I think I'd be better off making a tear off section with t's and c's on it. "I leave the work with B A Scott Picture framing, understanding that it is my responsibility to insure the work I have left in his care".

[Justintime]

@bang
Fair enough, but just as we're expected to have public liability insurance to cover the general public while on our business premises, I think it's also expected that we have insurance cover for accidental damage that we may cause. I wouldn't expect their insurance to offer them cover for that.

[bang]

@bang
Fair enough, but just as we're expected to have public liability insurance to cover the general public while on our business premises, I think it's also expected that we have insurance cover for accidental damage that we may cause. I wouldn't expect their insurance to offer them cover for that.

Good point!

Though high excess and being able to prove the worth of a claim makes a payout from insurers unlikely, so it seems.

It would be interesting to hear about more experiences from framers making claims, and how problematic it was... or wasn't depending on the insurers.

[Justintime]

I don't think that proving the value of a piece that we want to claim for would be as hard as we think (I'm probably contradicting myself from a previous reply). We're only going to claim for something significantly more than our excess as any claim is likely to affect our premiums for up to 5 years. A piece of value has likely been purchased at some point and a paper trail would bediscoverable. If a piece has been held by a person for many years, then the value would probably have fluctuated during that time and a search of auction site sales would reveal recent prices made for works by the same artist. I'd be surprised if insurers wouldn't take these recent prices into account.
Sadly with such a small number of active members on this site at the moment, I think we'd be pushed to find one framer with an insurance claim story to share. I might be wrong. I'm sure The Grumble would be a hotbed of tales!

[JoeB]

When you talk about insurance, we have about 24 staff and there is obvs building cover, then accident indemnity, but by far the most difficult is Goods in Trust, you cannot value each piece of art when it comes in, and the customer forgets it is valuable only bringing it up when something happens. It is not always about the money but the fact it was Grandma's picture etc. Our insurance is huge, but it would have to be a total destruction of the workshop to claim, I remember speaking at the Spring Fair to a framer that had a fire 5 years before, and the loss adjusters were still working on it.

[Justintime]

Joe, has it ever happened and what's your policy if a piece is damaged while in your care?

[JoeB]

We have mostly as they have been not to bad, just had to suck it up and learn a lesson, I have asked for expensive work to be covered individually but the quotes are useless. So we usually get them restored as we are lucky in Bristol and have lots of great restorers. The risk in framing from an insurance view is actually the machinery, saws and blades with less guards than other industries.