(Too) big first order

[Starboard]

Hello,

I have started framing about 6 month ago as a sideline business. I have a Futura gold, but no Morso or underpinner - I usually bought my frames precut and assemble them with a small manual underpinner, which is fine for one-off jobs.

I now have a quote request for 100 pces plus of artwork, a business in the South-East – all the same glass size. I realise that "buying pre-cut" mouldings is not going to end up with a viable price point. This is a one-off volume order, bare bones decoration artwork, nothing fancy.

Would you bite the bullet an buy a second hand Morso and underpinner? Or do you think it is wiser to try and find and established framer who would be happy to cut and assemble the frames?

It is one thing to do orders with one or two pieces, this is production line stuff: probably not complicated, but "I don't know what I don't know".

Thanks

[JFeig]

If I were in your shoes, I would not accept the job. We do not know what the profit expectations or potential loss of money are for you.

You have to learn on other projects than a potential job from another person. What will happen if they are not happy with the quality of what you produce? Having the equipment is one thing, knowing how to use it wisely is another.

[Starboard]

@JFeig

Good question. Quality requirements are fairly low – this is a decoration for commercial premises and very cheap artwork. So hitting the quality specs should not be too hard.

Costs of material in USD would be probably around 17$. I am unsure how much time savings can be achieved on such a long run – compared to a one-off.

So all in, the is probably 2,000 USD investment before the word go.

Unless I can make this in a series of small deliveries – say, batches of 20, then client payment, to limit risk.

[prospero]

100 frames doesn't sound too excessive....But it's actually going to take much longer than you might think.
Even putting the hangers on will take all day and is very boring. Then you have to pack them all.

So make sure you charge enough.

There are 400 corners. 800 faces on the moulding.

With your setup I'd pass.

[JFeig]

Costs of material in USD would be probably around 17$. So all in, the is probably 2,000 USD investment before the word go.

Unless I can make this in a series of small deliveries – say, batches of 20, then client payment, to limit risk.

That would be a positive option for your size of operation. You have not said what your profit would be per frame for this process. An optimal profit margin for your labor and overhead expenses for shops in my area are to have the cost of goods sold in the 20-25% range, sometimes a little bit more. Thus a selling price of £50-63 ($68-85). To lessen the risk and assist with your cash flow a deposit of 50% is the norm. With the profit you can also pay for some more equipment.

[Starboard]

Thank you, JFeig and Prospero.

I realise that 100 hundred frames is a tall order and i am not equipped for it – I could do it in small batches over months. I am now trying to see if i can share the job with a framer my area - on a profit sharing agreement, I'd front costs, they would cut and assemble the frames, i would cut mounts and do the final assembly and packing + delivery.

Thank you for your input, it helps.

[Gillthepainter]

Good afternoon, Starboard.
If you estimate that at full whack you will make 5 frames a day, that is quite the commitment.

A second hand Morso will make your life a lot easier. And an underpinner.
I got my 1960's Morso on gumtree for £200. Sharpened the 2 sets of blades at Lion for £50.
And use a benchmaster underpinner that cost me £90 on Ebay, unused at Sue Ryder. It has its limitations, namely complicated profiles will move, but it works on the tabletop.
You can remove the pinner from the lever mechanism and use it manually, but on softer woods.
Keep your eyes open for bargains, and you could have a set up for a minimum £500.




(my youtube video)

[Justintime]

I agree with Gillian. Equipment comes up often at a fraction of what it could cost, if you know what to look for.
It doesn't mean that I'd jump at the job you've been offered, by any stretch. You learn a lot doing a job like that. Don't expect to earn much money, but you'll learn loads! About pricing, wastage and time.
Good luck.

[Gillthepainter]

Justin
I did have a manual underpinner, foot operated. But as you can see from the front of the garage in the picture = my half, I didn't have room for it.
They do take up quite an area, and I also need to be able to get those ladders out when needed.

So I gave the underpinner to a friend, under the strict instructions that he didn't undo, and fiddle with it. Although it cost me £40 from a chap in Birmingham, it was still a fine piece of kit.
Now this artist (former aeronautical engineer) thought he knew better, and took it apart. And has a piece of metal that will just about feed 1 v-nail wedge, then jam.
I wish I'd passed it on to another person who needs one. It still bugs me, mildly.