Hand finishing Emafil

Not your average framer · Mon 14 Apr, 2008 9:14 am

I was just wondering if anyone has done any hand finishing over Emafil mouldings and if so can they recommend which paints will stick to it the best.

After a visit to my local auctions, where I saw a massive frame with polyurathane foam moulded detail on the front, I'm now looking into using some of the large architectural Emafil mouldings to do something similar.

My plan is to stack one of these with other mouldings to make some "over the top" large profiles. The other mouldings would give the benefit of have a robust wood moulding around the outer edge. I also wondered if anyone has tried this sort of thing and has any tips.
Thanks in anticipation,
Mark

Post by **prospero** » Mon 14 Apr, 2008 10:31 am

I did have a doodle in this direction at one time. Can't remember exactly what I did.

I think celluose primer sticks OK, but it would depend on the existing finish. Or maybe a coat of shellac.

I have some plastic bits kicking around, in fact I got 100ft or so in a bargain bundle just the other day.

I'll try a few experiments later...

btw. I have had a glance at big ornate plaster cornice mouldings a few times. With a solid wood casing and a bit of ingenuity you could build enormous profiles.

Not your average framer · Mon 14 Apr, 2008 11:45 am

prospero wrote:I have had a glance at big ornate plaster cornice mouldings a few times. With a solid wood casing and a bit of ingenuity you could build enormous profiles.

We're thinking alike. Mmmm...... Could be very profitable, some people will pay silly money for something which is "over the top enormous".

Post by **prospero** » Mon 14 Apr, 2008 12:47 pm

Nothing suceeds like excess.....

(No smartarse remarks about toothless budgies thank you so much

)

Be good to have mega frame on display, if only for the wow factor.

The biggest frame I've seen in captivity was 10'x6', with about a 12" width. A restorer I knew had it in to repair holes in the painting (Queen Victoria in all her regalia). The frame was truly monumental. It had a big crown ornament on the top and lots of wiggly bits. It seemed to be built up from various sections. I remember it particually as it was so big he had to work on it in the 4' wide passageway to his front door.
On it's side.

Moglet · Post by **Moglet** » Mon 14 Apr, 2008 12:59 pm

prospero wrote:The biggest frame I've seen in captivity ...

You're the most delightful wit, Prospero!

Post by **prospero** » Mon 14 Apr, 2008 1:16 pm

Moglet wrote: You're the most delightful wit, Prospero!

Errrrr...wait a minute..... I can't work out if that's supposed to be sarky or not.

You could confuse a stupid person.

I shall be puzzling about that all day now.......

I have been refered to in the past as a 'shining wit'.
At least I think that's what he said.

Moglet · Post by **Moglet** » Mon 14 Apr, 2008 1:53 pm

He does Spoonerisms, too!

My remark was meant as a genuine compliment!

Post by **prospero** » Mon 14 Apr, 2008 2:37 pm

I'm pink therefore I'm spam.

Not your average framer · Mon 14 Apr, 2008 4:21 pm

I've always fancied making up frames with the embellished section on the top with the urn in the middle and the finnials either side.

Or even better, I could do the family coat of arms in place of the urn.

I'd bet I could charge some serious money for the coat of arms bit!

Post by **prospero** » Mon 14 Apr, 2008 4:30 pm

I found a plastic frame for testing purposes. One corner has had a coat of red oxide cellulose primer. The opposite one a coat of shellac. Just brushed on some paint to see how it sticks. I'll leave it a while to dry and have a cuppa and a bite.

Film at 11.

Post by **prospero** » Mon 14 Apr, 2008 6:59 pm

Later.....

Well the cellulose paint seens to have stuck well. I did give the frame a light sanding first. Nothing intensive. I know solvent based varnish such as Liberon Gilt sticks directly to a cellulose base so thats OK for a trad red-based gold. Not sure if water based paint will cling as well. Might take a few weeks to test that properly.

Shellac sticks well as far as I can tell. And I know that water based paint sticks to shellac. So that process looks promising.

avantime · Post by **avantime** » Tue 15 Apr, 2008 5:35 pm

The best finish for an Emafil (or other plastic) moulding is closing the bin when you throw it away!!!

Post by **prospero** » Tue 15 Apr, 2008 6:47 pm

avantime wrote:The best finish for an Emafil (or other plastic) moulding is closing the bin when you throw it away!!!

Let's not be toooo hasty.

NYAF has a good idea in using it for ornamented sections on an otherwise sturdy wood frame. Even carp has it's uses sometimes.... And unlike gesso ornaments on wood, the patterns will never shrink and drop off as it's all in one lump.

Had another idea for thin plastic frames. Warm them up until they are really bendy and put them in some sort of jig to hold them in a bent shape while they cool. With luck they aught to keep the shape. You could make all sorts of weird frames. Ideal for surrealist paintings.

btw. re previous tests, the shellac primed plastic has a good bond. I gave it the fingernail test and the finish is sticking like the proverbial to a blanket. The cellulose primed section is also good, but shellacing is easier so QED.

Not your average framer · Tue 15 Apr, 2008 7:17 pm

The Emafil architectural catalogues arrived today and there's some really big mouldings in there and the prices are O.K. too! Some of them will need some large bits of wood to go with them, but the potential is clearly there.

They sell them by the box, but it's not so bad, as these mouldings are generally quite big and you don't get too much in a box.

Not your average framer · Tue 15 Apr, 2008 7:32 pm

Hi Prospero,

I suspect that these mouldings are made of either polystyrene or A.B.S. If this is so and you used shellac and added either some acetone (which disolves or welds polystyrene), or Methyl Ethyl Keytone (does the same for A.B.S.), then perhaps the resulting bond would be greatly enhanced by doing this. Or perhaps not?

Another sideline thought. Did you know that the furniture industry uses a lot of nitrous cellulose finishes, because the cellulose thinners slightly disolves the cellulose at the wood surface and causes a very strong bond between the wood and the cellulose finish.

fineedge · Post by **fineedge** » Tue 15 Apr, 2008 8:17 pm

Years ago when some of our suppliers still brought Emafyl in someone told me to use model airplane glue. Worked quite well but too small a tube. One of our suppliers now sells a glue for synthetics in 1 litre tins but I have never bought because I use a glue from the hardware store called PVC Weld. Similar stuff but I have no idea what it's make up is.

Post by **prospero** » Tue 15 Apr, 2008 9:42 pm

I used to work at a plastics factory.

ABS is very similar to polystyrene. Just a 'posh' version. So what works on styrene should work on ABS. I think the only way is to try it and see what works.

I'm trying to remember what I used to paint my little Airfix tanks with.

Post by **prospero** » Tue 15 Apr, 2008 9:51 pm

btw. If you want to identify a plastic the best way is to set it alight, blow the flame out and take a sniff. Of course you have to know what each type smells like. But be careful, some types like Acetals can really make your eyes water and make you feel you have inhaled a cheese grater.

Not your average framer · Tue 15 Apr, 2008 9:57 pm

Hi Alan,

I'm assuming that you use plastic waste pipes in your country as in ours, well if you do, then you may also have the same types of adhesives for joining these.

I haven't check if this is true, but I'm fairly sure that at least some of these pipes are made out of polystyrene or A.B.S. and I suspect some will also be made of P.V.C. Maybe this is a lead worth checking out!