Box frame for art glass - finishing?

[IanOliver]

Hi, I have been asked to frame a piece of "Art Glass" 800x200 in a box frame about 100mm deep to allow for lighting to be installed to show of the glass. The only thing is the customer does not want the usual frame to overhang the box, as it would cause a hazard in the hospital where it is to be hung.

I can't find any moulding anywhere deep enough, has anybody any bright ideas as to how to finish off a box frame to hold a piece of glass about 5 or 6mm thick, without using a moulding.



That's my suggestion.

Thanks in advance.
Ian

[prospero]

Hi and Welcome Ian.

Your plan looks sound to me. PAR softwood is readily available in 12X95 mm and 19x95mm. Wider sections are harder to find. How do you plan to finish the box? You are probably going to have to use a few nails here and there, so a few holes may have to be filled. I'm thinking particually on the face, but it may be better just to glue that part on. If you are planning the paint the frame, rather than keeping it natural wood it wood make disguising nail holes easier, although getting a perfect blend is not that easy. If you know a good timber merchant it may be worthwhile getting the sections machined to your specs in oak or ash. Mitring the corners may be tricky. It is difficult to get a perfect 90deg cut on a deep, narrow profile. There is a tendency for the moulding to wriggle slightly as the blades go though.

One thing more.... I would try to cushion the part where the glass contacts the wood. Lion Pic Frames do a self-adhesive rebate tape. 6mm glass is quite strong, but better safe.....etc.

[IanOliver]

Thanks for the help and ideas. I will need to get back to the customer to check on the finish required, so not sure at this stage about nail holes etc, but I like the idea of using a hard wood for the box, might even be able to get it cut to the L shape needed?

Ian

[prospero]

One alt is to get wood about 20mm x whatever and rout a groove to take the glass and rout a rebate in the other end. Then glue up two adjacent corners but just screw the others together. So you would have a removeable end. (Probably the top or wherever the screw heads would not be visible when hung). The glass could be slid in and the 'loose' end secured after. This way you you would have minimal machining and no messing about with spacers and such.

[framemaker]

Hi Ian

Rose and Hollis do a very deep box frame, made up from two sections which join together to make a really deep frame, the profile is the same as your drawing. total depth is 125mm with rebate depth of 115mm and the width is 28mm It is in obeche. The join is about 40mm from the back which is easily filled. I will post an image if it helps.

[Bill Henry]

Making a “ledge” to hold the glass will work, of course, but you’re left with a visible bump just under the glazing which will need to be finished like the interior of the rebate. Plus, should you ever have to disassemble the frame, the job will be a pain.

I prefer to use a “box” made from mat (mount) board and strengthened by foam board. We use suede a lot, since it seems to go with the things we often mount like military medals and wedding accessories.

Determine how deep your shadowbox needs to be, say, 10 cm, and the horizontal and vertical dimensions of the “background”, say 80 cm x 20 cm. Add 20 cm (2 x 10 cm) to each dimension, so that your starting mat blank will be 100 cm by 40 cm.

Reduce the depth of your mat cutter blade (the bevel side) so that the blade cuts through the backing almost, but not quite, slicing through the surface paper. You will probably want to play with mat scraps to get this just right.

Set the guide bar to 10 cm and score the back of the mount board on each of the four sides.



Remove the four corner pieces, but leave the exposed surface paper. If you’ve scored the back just so, the pieces should be easily removed without any mat board (mountboard) “core” remaining.



Gently fold each of the four sides up at a 90° angle so that you have the makings of a box. Fold the exposed surface paper into a triangle, then tape each triangle flush against the exterior sides of the box. I use “licky-sticky” linen tape; it seems to hold better. The triangles also should be taped in opposing directions so the “box” doesn’t get skewed once you frame it.




Once you’ve got a semi-rigid box, cut strips of foam board the full length of each side plus 5 mm (the thickness of the foam board) by the height of the sides of the box. This height may be just a wee bit more or less than the 10 cm you originally scored. It depends a lot on just how deep the blade was set and the actual thickness of the mat board, so you should probably measure it rather than rely on your guide bar.



Adhere these foam board strips to the exterior sides of the mount board box. I tend to use PMA since I don’t need to apply a lot of pressure (and risk distorting the sides of the box) to make the bond.

You are left with a “seamless” box that transitions from the back to the sides with no sharp, glaring gap between the two surfaces. And, I believe that one has a more pleasant color (usually) seen at the side of this shadowbox than a stark white or black hunk of foam board.

Place you glass on top of the box; the rigidity of the foam board should keep it from collapsing. Fit your frame over the mout/glass package, and voilà.

Another advantage to my mind is that this reinforced “box” is self contained, so it shouldn’t need to be afixed to the rebate. It’s a lot easier to remove from the frame if the need arises.

[prospero]

Bill. I was assuming in this case that the 'glass' is the art and that you can't actually see anything though it.
The depth of the box would be to accommodate backlightling so it does not have to be especially 'tidy'.

[Bill Henry]

Bill. I was assuming in this case that the 'glass' is the art and that you can't actually see anything though it.
The depth of the box would be to accommodate backlightling so it does not have to be especially 'tidy'.

Oh, … well, … in that case, never mind!

I thought, maybe, that "Art Glass" was a trade name for something like TV Museum or something else peculiar to the U. K. or something …

[Spit]

You saying we're peculiar in the UK? Oi, Noooooooooooooooooo!

[prospero]

Oh, … well, … in that case, never mind!

I thought, maybe, that "Art Glass" was a trade name for something like TV Museum or something else peculiar to the U. K. or something …

I may well be the case for all I know. I was working on the assumption that it was some image or design done on glass. Maybe it should be 'Glass Art'.

[Not your average framer]

Hi Ian,

May I suggest that you have a look at Simons moulding NW/8 on page 8 of their 2008 catalogue, (or something similar). This will added about 65mm extra depth to another deep moulding. If you turn the above mentioned moulding through 90 degrees so that the outside edge becomes the base of the moulding before cutting and joining it, then you can glue another deep moulding into the now forward facing rebate. I usually glue an additional plain wood section inside for added support and increased surface area for strength of the glued joint.

I've used the same technique to extend the depth of another moulding on another currently active thread and it allows you easily hid the join between the two mouldings. Here's the picture.



Click the link below for larger view.

http://img229.imagevenue.com/img.php?im ... 2_38lo.jpg

[IanOliver]

I am pleased with the number of replies to my first post. Generated an interesting little debate. Thanks for taking the time to reply.

Just to confirm, it is the glass that is the subject, and that it is to be lit from within the box. The customer has now confirmed that a simple pine box as originally described, would fit the bill, and that it will probably be stained to suit. I will take a note of the other suggestions though, as I do get asked to do some "strange" objects and this info will come in handy.

Cheers

[Bill Henry]

You saying we're peculiar in the UK? Oi, Noooooooooooooooooo!

"Course not! As long as you stay on your medication, you guys are fine.