PPFA in the UK.

[Not your average framer]

For those who have already received their latest copy of Picture Business, there is an article on the new "UK branch" of the PPFA. I will be joining and have already asked for a membership application, which is on it's way.

There's even a special introductory membership deal of the first years membership for £30, in place of the normal price of £55. Having had a bit of a chat with the gent who's running the show, it is clear that they are big on training, not only with regard to framing, but on business development too. Sounds good to me!

[Roboframer]

I thought, when I got home today and logged on, (no computer in the shop) that this topic would be buzzing - but no replies at all - strange!

Very strange - so much gripe about the FATG and now here's an alternative. (?)

I've read the article in TPB - I've read it over and over - I've also noticed how A.N Other company is rearing up - big time and they seem to be affiliated in some way.

But the guy heading the push for PPFA - never 'eard of 'im - the guy heading A.N. Other company - affiliated or not, but pushing his company big time - never 'eard of 'im.

The main advantages being pushed are not becoming a better framer - the main advantages being pushed are Insurance, legal advice, credit card deals. And training.

Training by who? What's the credentials - where can we see these experts' work?

What books have they written, what videos have they made - who the frell are they?

For all the FATG's faults I believe their heart is in the right place - I believe they genuinely wish to increase awareness and standards - I just don't believe they have much clue as to how to achieve their beliefs.

This bunch seem totally commercial to me - the guy heading the push has been around in the UK for years - I just think he has teamed up with a framing 'school' that definitely has its head screwed on.

The PPFA are a small part of a huge animal - The Picture Business is an even smaller part of just as huge an animal - neither animal has framing at its fore. Both want your money, neither are up for advancement - not as any priority at least.

IMHO

[mick11]

I've read the article in TPB - I've read it over and over - I've also noticed how A.N Other company is rearing up - big time and they seem to be affiliated in some way.

But the guy heading the push for PPFA - never 'eard of 'im - the guy heading A.N. Other company - affiliated or not, but pushing his company big time - never 'eard of 'im.

The main advantages being pushed are not becoming a better framer - the main advantages being pushed are Insurance, legal advice, credit card deals. And training.

Training by who? What's the credentials - where can we see these experts' work?

What books have they written, what videos have they made - who the frell are they?

This bunch seem totally commercial to me - the guy heading the push has been around in the UK for years - I just think he has teamed up with a framing 'school' that definitely has its head screwed on.

I know the guy personally. I with a couple of other framers helped him set up DIY framing and was an instructor for them for a couple of years.

He has set up the "Framing School "and is also the MD of DIY framing. Not prepared to say more on an open forum, but anyone wanting more information can PM or email me.

[Roboframer]

Well, I wasn't going to name the 'school' - the info is there in TPB and from there you can access their website. But now that that has been done, I'll voice some concerns.

Regardless of what they say in the article on them, it is clear, from their advert in the mag, the flyer that fell out of it - and their website, that they are in to training, and selling to, Hobbyists - bigtime.

They exhibit at retail shows - the next three up, on their website are ....

Crafts4Crafters - Newark & Notts County Showground - Fri, 05 Sep 2008

Hobbycrafts Exhibition - Exeter, Wespoint Centre - Thu, 25 Sep 2008

Knitting & Stitching Show - Alexandra Palace - Thu, 09 Oct 2008

All those shows attract my own customers, or at least type of customer, and the one at Ally Pally will be attended by some of my own customers.

They are probably advertising in consumer magazines too.

Good luck to them - seriously - they're throwing a lot of money about in promotion and advertising, speculating to accummulate. I have no problem at all with that.

I'm just not sure about joining something working with someone that competes for my custom in any way shape or form.

Not trying to influence anyone - just my own first thoughts - please read the articles, and the adverts, visit the website, and see what you think - I for one would be interested to hear your thoughts.

[Roboframer]

The more I read of this UK/PPFA article, the more I doubt.

You pay £30 for your first year - after that it depends on your turnover.

I'm not spilling my turnover (annual sales) to any bugger bar the tax man. I'm a private company; not a limited one - were I a limited company they could just look that up.

I'm VAT registered - but as far as anyone - bar the taxman - and the bank ...... is concerned, that could be voluntary.

Then there is the bit where it goes on about 'exchange' - which is 'like a forum' - You know - you have a problem and ask 'has anyone out there got any experience of this requirement'

"You'd be surprised just how many people respond, worldwide. with their suggestions"

Well Hellooooooooo!

He is not talking about this forum or TFG - he's talking about 'Hitchikers' - the PPFA forum - you have to be a member of PPFA.

TFG knocks spots off it!

Then look further in to the products that this 'framing school' sells - ATG tape 'for mounting artwork'

Tapestry tape for .... well here's the link - see for yourself. I assume, as they advertise those tapes for those applications that they teach the same.

Then watch the video - there's the MD standing in front of a frame, displayed from the back, with cord - (think what you will of cord vv wire - but look how tight it's tied) - giving it 'We are accredited by the PPFA and the FATG'

[Not your average framer]

I think the training provider in question and the UK branch of the PPFA are two separate and different organisations. I am interested in joining the PPFA, which is an internationally respected organisation which operates an internationally repected series of exams and qualifications. It is specifically an organisation for picture framers.

However I can see what John is saying about the training provider, having read their info in the flyer delivered with picture business which appears to confirm that they are operating "one day training events for multiple trainees" which I presume are to their own formulated programs.

If this is not true, I trust the organisation in question, will be happy to correct any misunderstanding created by their literature.

I note that many of the established and well respected training providers in this country who are household names in our industry with reputations for getting it right and helping successful framers getting started, only operate training on a "one to one" basis, (with occasional exceptions for partnershipships and husband and wives going into business together), because that's what is needed and what works best. Also, unless I am mistaken, many of these excellent trainers offer one to one training for not a lot more than the prices quoted by this organisation.

When it comes to training, it pays to to check what you are getting for your money. In the early days, the survival of your business may depend on how good your training is!

[Roboframer]

I think the training provider in question and the UK branch of the PPFA are two separate and different organisations.

Of course they are - but they are working hand in glove - or at least that's how I'm reading it.

Regards the training provider - there's no misunderstanding - they are in to the retail (consumer) market in a big way - it's all there on their website and in their ad in TPB - there they are at consumer fairs - who else from our trade does those?

Do the FATG?

Nope - it's the trade they want to educate - not the trade's customers - as in physical framing.

[Dave]

As the FATG has been mentioned, just thought I'd chip in my OWN PERSONAL OPINION. As a still new business (12 months), it costs too damn much to join. I simply cannot justify that kind of spend. Perhaps after another couple of years I could be tempted, have been sent a copy of their magazine, presumably to tempt me, thought it was excellent, but just cannot find my way to paying those fees. I don't how good or bad an organisation they are because of those fees. It appears to be elitist because of those fees. Spot any trends here?????

Monday morning bitch over and done with, back to work now.

[DEEPJOY]

Hi All

I am with Roboframer on this one.
You always have to question the value for money issue when considering things of this nature. If they are providing a service that you could never do for yourself, because you have no time, as your time is better spent servicing your customer needs, then fine, it may be worth considering. I will give you of an example of something I have subscribed to. I have paid around £12.00 per month for the priviledge of being a ROYALITIES GOLD account holder with the RBS Bank for some time now. It has proved convenient because at the very least it provides full annual family travel cover as well as a host of other specials and offers. If however, you break it down and try to use some of their 'so called' offers, you can beat them everytime. Currency exchange is deamed to be commission free, I go out to any of the high street travel shops, have a nice chat and suggest they beat the oppositions price and hey presto... I' m in with a deal.
As far as training goes, I dare say most of you guys could teach them a trick or two.
I have received training frm DIY FRAMING and for what I paid, it was OK value. When I require more, I will be looking for advise from you guys, support from suppliers and as a last resort, probably 'one to one' training with a recognised individual, or again recommendation from one of you.
The bottom line is, - they do not offer anything you can do or find for yourself! Most of you guys already seem to be successful, so I would question the the need. ONLY MY OPINION OF COURSE, WHICH I BELIEVE I AM ENTITLED TO.

[Not your average framer]

What happened to the PPFA issue. I'm unlikely to require training from this particular provider, but I would still like to join an appropiate professional body. So my question still is, "am I better off joining the PPFA, or the FATG"?

What's happened to those who used to say it was better to join the PPFA? Have they changed their minds?

[WelshFramer]

Can't see anything on the PPFA website about UK membership - just US, Australia, Canada and New Zealand.

[Jonny2morsos]

Slightly off the original point but it was mentioned by one of the respondents in an earlier thread.

It is complete madness to train our customers to do our job for us.

Does your hairdresser offer to teach you how to do it your self at home and save your self a packet? oh and while your at it why not get half good at it and take all my customers away from me.

I think not.

I'll not be going anyhwre near this bunch.

John.

[Roboframer]

Well, that's the training & qualification side - and also only initially. At present I don't think anyone in this country can possibly be qualified to teach and test to CPF or MCPF standards, although I could be wrong.

As for the rest, well it's been discussed here before, and their are benefits that could be worth the small annual fee - like a newsletter only available to members (something the FATG don't do) - their forum, (ditto)hitchikers, you have to be a member to view it and although not as good as TFG - it's still good.

I think I'll either just join and see what happens or see what others who have joined say - I very much doubt if I'd go for the CPF exam anyway for the same reasons as I wouldn't go for the GCF exam - wouldn't make one jot of difference to me. But that's me.




http://theframersforum.com/viewtopic.ph ... PFA#p10597

http://theframersforum.com/viewtopic.ph ... PPFA#p9515

[framemaker]

Roboframer wrote:
You pay £30 for your first year - after that it depends on your turnover.

I'm not spilling my turnover (annual sales) to any bugger bar the tax man. I'm a private company; not a limited one - were I a limited company they could just look that up.

I'm VAT registered - but as far as anyone - bar the taxman - and the bank ...... is concerned, that could be voluntary.

The membership fee of £ 55 (plus VAT) per year is for businesses with sales turnover below £475 000 per year, so I think that goes for most framers.

Welshframer wrote:
Can't see anything on the PPFA website about UK membership - just US, Australia, Canada and New Zealand.

I was told that the PPFA is an International trade association open to anyone in the world. Those 4 countries just happen to be the ones that they have applications posted on-line for.

If you email them they will send a pdf of the UK application form, you are basically joining the PMA and with this membership you can choose to become a member of a specialised member association which for us is the PPFA. or you can email the UK office, I do not get Picture Business so I have not read the article mentioned above but I imagine the UK office contact details are in the article, if not PM me for the email address.

[Not your average framer]

I decided to phone up and ask a few more questions today. So here's the answers I got:

The membership fee after the first year, depends on if your turn-over excluding VAT is less than or more than £475,000. They are not interested in how much, it's just a simple yes or no question.

They are not in any way connected with the training provider in question apart from the fact that this provider is the first to get on board with their training program. Other training providers within the Uk are looking to sign-up for this too.

They will be stocking a library of book titles for sale to UK members.

There is a free membership magazine called "For members only" it's not a monthly one, so it may be bi-monthly or quarterly.

I also asked if they can arrange for Decor magazine or Picture Framing magazine to be made available within the UK for PPFA members and they will be happy to offer this service if it was requested.

Speaking for myself, I will be joining the PPFA. I've been looking to join a specifically professional picture framers organisation.

Also again speaking for myself, I think that if not for the fact that the training provider in question is seeking to promote itself to both professionals and hobbyists, then everyone would be quite happy.

Whilst I know that many of our existing training providers are more than happy to train hobby frames, they don't appear to be making a big thing of it. However this company not only is making a big thing of this, but is seeking to supply the equipment and materials to those who it trains.

I find it hard to see this particular training provider as having anything other than a negative effect on our industry by creating the thought that hobby framers can with only very basic training seek to undercut experienced, properly equiped professional framers operating from proper premises with a view to making a little extra cash in their spare time.

[Roboframer]

Nice one Mark,

The PMA (Photographic Marketting Association) - which PPFA is part of, is a huge organisation.

So why on earth did they not introduce themselves with the assistance of a trusted name - maybe one that is not a FATG member - although that was not an issue for The UK School of Framing - and isn't that a very grand sounding title! (Sorry - I'm assuming they are members - haven't checked - they say their courses are FATG/PPFA 'accredited')

How about Nielsen - USA and UK based - how about Simons? How about Arqadia? OK Arqadia are in to the FATG big time - but they are owned by Larson Juhl - who are in to the PPFA - nothing wrong with being in to both, is there?

Anyway, like anything new, there will be teething problems - but once it's up and running, assuming it will be successful - it could be great - so, anyway, I will join - what's thirty quid for heavens sake!

I'm hoping, in time, and hopefully not too much time; it will bring people Like Jim Miller over here to give seminars and classes - at the Spring Fair, at PPFA events, whatever.

FATG can send representatives all over the planet - so can the PPFA.

Join - even if not for any other reason than to make the FATG sit up!

[Not your average framer]

Join - even if not for any other reason than to make the FATG sit up!

I've got a better reason, the primary focus of the PPFA is picture framing.

[Roboframer]

Well, they're a 'better man' than I am then - my primary focus is making profit!

[WelshFramer]

They are not in any way connected with the training provider in question apart from the fact that this provider is the first to get on board with their training program. Other training providers within the Uk are looking to sign-up for this too.

That's reassuring.

Anyway, like anything new, there will be teething problems - but once it's up and running, assuming it will be successful - it could be great - so, anyway, I will join - what's thirty quid for heavens sake!

Sounds like a good reason to join - help them learn from their mistakes from the inside rather than moaning on the touchline.

For those of us that haven't seen the advert would somebody like to post some contact details?

[framemaker]

contact details at the bottom of this link page:

http://www.pmai.org/index.cfm/ci_id/269 ... ontact.htm

or email:

pmauk@pmai.org